2.5L WRX Modification Breakdown (with logs and road dynos)

Discussion in 'Tech, Tips, Newb Info' started by Bullwinkle, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Below is a comparison from my 06 WRX at each stage of its short life. Below is a list of each set up with a an ECU log and a road dyno comparo from the previous modification level.

    All of the raw data can be found here.

    Each stage of modifications below has a full list of the power mods that were on the car when the log and dyno was taken. For continuity, all logs used were as close to 80 degree intake temps as possible. So, the logs aren't all perfect and knock free (yeah, especially the stock one :(), but they represent a good sample pool. All the custom tuning as done by me. I'll breakdown my thoughts on each "stage" after the data.

    Stock
    Mods:
    Panel Filter
    Intake silencer delete

    Code:
    RPM	Load	Timing	MRP	WG	MAFv
    2396	1.3	23.5	1.89	15.69	2.78
    2414	1.45	18	3.63	16.47	2.88
    2524	1.57	14.5	5.37	16.86	3.04
    2580	1.69	13.5	6.96	16.86	3.08
    2682	1.74	14	7.84	17.65	3.18
    2760	1.79	14	8.42	16.86	3.2
    2877	1.8	14	8.71	16.47	3.26
    2968	1.8	15	8.71	17.65	3.3
    3073	1.79	16	8.85	19.61	3.36
    3164	1.8	16.5	9	20.78	3.36
    3261	1.83	16.5	9.43	23.92	3.44
    3394	1.92	16.5	10.3	29.41	3.5
    3518	2.03	16	11.17	37.65	3.6
    3610	2.12	15.5	11.75	40.39	3.68
    3752	2.18	15.5	12.04	40	3.76
    3864	2.19	13	12.19	39.22	3.8
    3946	2.2	13.5	12.19	38.43	3.8
    4120	2.15	14.5	11.75	40	3.8
    4230	2.12	16.5	11.46	42.75	3.84
    4310	2.13	16.5	11.61	44.31	3.88
    4461	2.17	17	11.9	44.71	3.94
    4546	2.17	17	11.75	45.1	3.98
    4700	2.15	18	11.61	45.49	3.98
    4819	2.14	18.5	11.61	46.27	3.98
    4896	2.13	18.5	11.46	47.06	4
    5040	2.13	18.5	11.32	48.24	4.04
    5111	2.13	18.5	11.17	48.63	4.06
    5220	2.12	18.5	11.03	51.37	4.08
    5316	2.11	19	10.88	53.33	4.1
    5456	2.09	19.5	10.74	56.08	4.1
    5561	2.08	19.5	10.74	60	4.12
    5605	2.06	20	10.59	60.78	4.12
    5746	2.04	20.5	10.59	55.69	4.14
    5804	2	20.5	10.16	51.37	4.14
    5906	1.98	21	10.16	47.45	4.12
    5974	1.95	21.5	10.01	43.14	4.14
    6104	1.9	22	9.87	41.57	4.12
    6130	1.88	22	9.43	38.04	4.12
    6201	1.85	22.5	9.29	32.55	4.12
    6321	1.82	23	9	30.59	4.12
    6321	1.79	23.5	8.71	27.84	4.1
    6454	1.76	24	8.42	24.31	4.1
    
    Stage 1
    Mods:
    Panel Filter
    Intake silencer delete

    Stock vs Stage 1
    [​IMG]

    Code:
    RPM	Load	Timing	MRP	WG	MAFv
    2203	1.33	20	2.61	77.65	2.7
    2302	1.44	18.5	3.92	77.65	2.74
    2385	1.55	17	5.22	77.25	2.84
    2488	1.67	16.5	6.53	75.69	2.92
    2598	1.78	16	8.13	72.94	3.02
    2704	1.88	15.5	9.43	70.2	3.16
    2811	1.99	15	10.88	67.06	3.26
    2938	2.1	15	12.33	63.92	3.38
    3085	2.18	14.5	13.49	59.61	3.5
    3224	2.21	15	13.93	56.47	3.56
    3388	2.21	15	13.93	56.08	3.6
    3473	2.24	15.5	13.64	55.29	3.64
    3632	2.28	15.5	13.35	54.9	3.7
    3746	2.28	16	13.06	54.9	3.76
    3924	2.26	16.5	12.91	54.9	3.78
    4054	2.25	16.5	12.91	54.9	3.82
    4154	2.23	17	12.77	56.47	3.86
    4321	2.21	17	12.77	57.65	3.88
    4409	2.2	17.5	12.48	58.43	3.9
    4561	2.21	17.5	12.48	60.39	3.94
    4646	2.21	17.5	12.48	62.75	3.96
    4779	2.21	18	12.62	64.31	4
    4899	2.19	18	12.48	66.27	4.04
    5005	2.19	18	12.33	67.84	4.04
    5131	2.18	18.5	12.04	69.8	4.08
    5238	2.16	18.5	11.9	71.37	4.1
    5386	2.14	19	11.46	79.22	4.1
    5441	2.14	19	11.32	83.53	4.12
    5578	2.09	19.5	11.03	85.49	4.12
    5678	2.05	19.5	10.88	85.88	4.12
    5771	2.04	20	10.74	78.82	4.14
    5864	1.99	20.5	10.59	76.08	4.14
    5942	1.98	20.5	10.59	67.84	4.14
    6035	1.95	20.5	10.45	65.1	4.12
    6056	1.93	19.5	10.3	58.82	4.14
    6182	1.9	20	10.3	54.51	4.14
    6256	1.88	21.5	10.16	53.73	4.14
    6260	1.85	22	10.01	46.67	4.14
    6400	1.82	22.5	9.58	42.35	4.14
    6476	1.8	23	9.43	39.22	4.14
    6479	1.75	24.5	8.27	4.71	4.14
    6588	1.41	28	3.92	0	4.08
    
    Stage 2
    Mods:
    Panel Filter
    Intake silencer delete
    Turbo XS stealthback catted exhaust (4" downpipe, 3" catted midpipe)
    Stock axleback

    Stage 1 vs Stage 2
    [​IMG]

    Code:
    RPM	Load	Timing	MRP	WG	MAFg/s
    2180	1.42	15	2.76	74.12	54.63
    2259	1.58	13.5	4.79	73.73	63.54
    2346	1.79	12	7.11	73.73	73.45
    2449	2.01	12	9.58	73.33	86.81
    2570	2.24	11.5	12.62	72.94	99.68
    2678	2.46	10.5	15.38	72.16	114.44
    2844	2.62	11	17.27	69.02	127.71
    2995	2.65	11	17.7	69.02	132.57
    3144	2.65	11	17.7	70.2	140.43
    3323	2.68	11.5	17.56	70.2	149.55
    3432	2.7	11.5	17.27	70.59	156.13
    3583	2.73	12	16.83	70.98	161.67
    3749	2.72	12	16.54	70.98	169.82
    3873	2.69	12	16.11	71.37	172.85
    4021	2.67	12.5	15.96	71.37	175.59
    4132	2.61	13	15.67	72.55	180.04
    4311	2.57	14	15.53	74.51	186.52
    4408	2.56	14.5	15.09	75.29	187.25
    4509	2.53	14.5	14.8	76.47	191.36
    4615	2.49	15.5	14.51	78.04	193
    4786	2.46	17	14.22	79.61	195.06
    4855	2.43	17.5	13.93	80.39	196.71
    5006	2.41	17.5	13.35	81.96	199.17
    5131	2.35	18	13.06	82.75	199.99
    5176	2.33	19	12.62	83.53	204.61
    5326	2.29	19	12.19	84.31	204.2
    5433	2.27	20	11.9	85.49	203.83
    5518	2.25	19	11.75	85.88	204.28
    5572	2.2	21	11.32	85.1	206.06
    5694	2.17	21	11.03	81.96	205.61
    5740	2.13	21.5	10.88	80.39	205.61
    5830	2.11	22	10.59	75.29	204.72
    5885	2.08	22	10.59	72.55	206.5
    5963	2.06	22	10.45	67.45	204.28
    6076	2.03	21	10.3	65.88	202.61
    6102	2.01	21	10.16	63.53	205.61
    6160	2	21.5	10.01	60.39	206.06
    6212	1.97	21.5	10.01	55.29	206.06
    
    Stage 2+
    Mods:
    Panel Filter
    Intake silencer delete
    Turbo XS stealthback catted exhaust (4" downpipe, 3" catted midpipe)
    Maddad Whisper 2.5" axleback
    GMBCS

    Stage 2 vs Stage 2+
    [​IMG]

    Code:
    RPM	Load	Timing	MRP	WG	MAFv
    2138	0.3	29	-8.56	0	2.2
    2183	1.06	25	-0.44	9.8	2.66
    2173	1.34	16.5	1.74	34.12	2.8
    2266	1.56	14.5	3.92	76.86	2.9
    2370	1.8	13.5	6.53	76.86	3.14
    2460	2.12	12	10.3	76.86	3.36
    2595	2.46	11.5	14.22	75.29	3.58
    2728	2.84	11	18.14	73.33	3.72
    2930	3	11.5	19.3	72.55	3.84
    3088	3.03	11.5	19.15	72.55	3.9
    3218	3.04	11.5	19.01	72.94	3.96
    3388	3.03	12	18.57	73.73	3.98
    3560	3.06	12	18.28	74.9	4.06
    3692	3.07	12.5	18.14	75.29	4.12
    3876	3.05	13	17.85	76.08	4.14
    4044	3	13.5	17.56	76.86	4.16
    4152	2.93	14	17.27	77.65	4.18
    4272	2.87	14.5	16.69	79.22	4.2
    4451	2.83	15.5	15.96	80.39	4.2
    4576	2.76	16	15.53	81.57	4.2
    4708	2.72	16.5	15.09	82.35	4.24
    4843	2.65	17	14.51	83.53	4.24
    4915	2.61	17.5	13.78	84.31	4.24
    5025	2.55	18	13.35	85.1	4.24
    5186	2.5	19	12.77	85.88	4.24
    5255	2.46	19	12.33	87.06	4.26
    5389	2.42	20	12.04	87.84	4.26
    5444	2.37	20	11.61	89.02	4.26
    5526	2.34	20.5	11.17	89.41	4.26
    5684	2.31	21	11.03	89.02	4.26
    5754	2.26	21.5	10.74	88.63	4.26
    5812	2.24	21.5	10.59	88.24	4.26
    5880	2.21	21.5	10.45	88.24	4.26
    5952	2.18	22	10.3	87.84	4.26
    6027	2.15	22	10.16	87.84	4.26
    6156	2.11	22.5	9.87	87.45	4.26
    6184	2.09	22.5	9.87	87.45	4.26
    6240	2.08	22.5	9.87	87.06	4.26
    6313	2.05	23	9.58	87.06	4.26
    6380	2.04	23	9.58	86.67	4.26
    6494	2.01	23.5	9.43	86.67	4.26
    
    TD05 18g 7cm
    Mods:
    Panel Filter
    Intake silencer delete
    Turbo XS stealthback catted exhaust (4" downpipe, 3" catted midpipe)
    Maddad Whisper 2.5" axleback
    GMBCS
    FP TD05 18g 7cm Turbo

    Stage 2+ vs 18g
    [​IMG]

    Code:
    RPM	LOAD	TIMING	MRP	MAFgs	WB02
    2012	1.2	23.5	0.58	41.15	12.33
    2058	1.23	23	0.87	42.66	13.23
    2078	1.26	23	1.31	43.93	10.67
    2137	1.28	23.5	1.74	46.2	11.79
    2172	1.33	23.5	2.32	49.2	12.14
    2223	1.36	24	2.76	51.37	12.22
    2248	1.39	24.5	3.19	53.15	12.25
    2290	1.43	24	3.48	56.3	12.79
    2332	1.46	24	3.92	58.77	12.67
    2396	1.52	24.5	4.5	62.1	12.73
    2408	1.55	23.5	4.93	65.33	13.26
    2490	1.64	23	5.51	69.55	13.29
    2517	1.68	22	6.09	73.99	13.41
    2568	1.75	21	6.82	75.95	13.19
    2637	1.8	20.5	7.4	81.25	13.19
    2688	1.88	19.5	8.13	86.85	13.32
    2777	1.94	18.5	9.14	93.7	13.41
    2820	2.05	17.5	10.16	101.8	13.22
    2922	2.13	16.5	11.46	107.22	13.69
    2993	2.29	15	12.91	117.22	13.74
    3052	2.41	13.5	14.51	128.99	13.22
    3135	2.61	12.5	16.11	141.06	11.91
    3215	2.76	11.5	17.85	152.34	11.8
    3312	2.96	11	19.73	170.95	11.69
    3443	3.09	11	20.89	181.37	11.44
    3584	3.21	11.5	21.18	192.18	11.33
    3675	3.25	11.5	21.62	201.02	11.3
    3830	3.24	11.5	21.18	200.54	11.14
    3849	3.21	12	21.18	208.29	11.11
    3934	3.22	12	21.47	210.96	11.07
    4000	3.22	12	21.47	210.51	11.04
    4081	3.14	12	20.89	214.07	10.97
    4172	3.14	12	20.89	217.19	11.1
    4249	3.14	12	21.04	224.01	11.05
    4384	3.15	12	20.89	229.68	11.25
    4471	3.16	12	20.6	232.57	11.26
    4546	3.13	12.5	20.6	238.34	11.11
    4639	3.12	12.5	20.6	239.78	11.01
    4684	3.09	12.5	20.46	241.23	11.01
    4798	3.09	12.5	20.6	249.08	11.02
    4902	3.1	12.5	20.46	250.61	11.1
    5005	3.09	12.5	20.31	255.73	11.22
    5044	3.06	13	20.17	257.78	11.19
    5188	3.05	13	19.88	261.37	11.05
    5258	3.03	13	19.59	262.93	11.16
    5296	3	13	19.44	266.67	11.13
    5363	2.99	13	19.44	266.13	11.16
    5488	2.99	13	19.44	270.97	11.11
    5510	2.95	12	19.3	270.97	11.2
    5591	2.92	12	19.15	273.65	10.95
    5652	2.91	12	19.15	274.73	10.95
    5737	2.88	12.5	18.86	274.19	11.13
    5815	2.83	13	18.57	275.27	10.98
    5874	2.82	13	18.43	276.34	11
    5935	2.77	13.5	18.43	274.73	11.02
    6003	2.75	14	17.99	275.27	11.05
    6121	2.71	14.5	17.85	274.19	10.98
    6117	2.7	13.5	17.56	272.04	11.1
    6238	2.64	14	17.56	273.12	11.02
    6301	2.64	14.5	17.41	273.12	11.08
    6354	2.61	14.5	17.27	273.12	10.82
    6399	2.59	15	17.12	273.12	10.95
    6464	2.56	15.5	16.83	274.19	10.94
    6534	2.55	16.5	16.83	273.12	10.78
    6527	2.52	16.5	16.69	272.04	10.8
    6635	2.51	17	16.54	274.73	10.73
    6620	2.48	18.5	16.4	273.12	11.02
    6670	2.46	19	16.25	275.27	11.05
    6784	2.43	19	16.25	272.04	10.76
    6763	2.42	19	16.11	276.34	10.64
    6878	2.39	19.5	16.11	273.12	10.92
    6929	2.37	20	16.11	273.12	10.89
    
     
  2. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Breakdown
    The stock tune sucks! Boost is basically a linear curve, and then dies off up top. This terrible curve is compounded by the weird scissor timing and lean AF ratios from the open loop-closed loop delay, and creates a car that really surges when you mash on the pedal.

    Second, the stock WRX axleback is terrible. While I gained some midrange torque after tossing on the downpipe for stage 2, the car was still extremely bottled up top. After putting on a high flow axleback and a GMBCS, the car really opened up. In addition, the extra boost in the midrange really added a fun punch down low.

    Third, we all know the TD04 is insanely small for the 2.5L. The turbo is really snappy and fun while daily driving on the street, but dies reeealy quickly. For those of you with a 2.0L WRX, this is a little different. While the 06+ WRX has trouble holding 10 PSI at redline, the 2.0L WRX's can hold around 14 PSI, and are often just injector limited on a stage 2 tune.

    Last, the 18g is OK for the 2.5L engine. It's a small turbo, and performs similar to a VF39, with slightly more top-end, even in the 7cm trim. As you can see, it has a ton more top end then the TD04. I am really enjoying this turbo, as it flattened out the powerband, and I am now actually able to drive above 5k RPM.

    Hope you learned something, or at least found it interesting. :)
     
  3. Justin
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    Justin Well-Known Member

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    nate, you still using our prototype bcs?
     
  4. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Yup, it's working good. That 18g log is from when I had the GMBCS on, though. All my ones with yours on there are in much colder weather.

    I'm liking it, it's quieter. :)
     
  5. Soupboy
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    Soupboy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Nate. This is a great post for comparing common mod "paths" on a relative basis. I think you found 5 more HP than my tune just to annoy me!
     
  6. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Also, I guess I should include this:

    Regarding the logs, here are the parameters logged and what they mean:

    RPM - This is an easy one
    Load - Engine load, a number calculated based on RPM and airflow, roughly equivalent to torque
    Timing - Engine timing, in degrees below top dead center
    MRP - Manifold Relative Pressure (this is boost)
    WG - Wastegate Duty Cycles (this controls boost, the higher number, the more boost)
    MAF - Mass Air Flow - I've logged in a couple different versions (sorry, my method of logging has changed :)), MAFv is the voltage past the MAF sensor, MAF g/s is a caclulated grams per second value based on this voltage. This value can be roughly equated to HP.
     
  7. Ryan
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    Ryan Sled drifting master

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    nice breakdown. I think this will give some people some ideas of what to do when they ask "What mod should I do?"
     
  8. Ronnie@RSmotors
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    Ronnie@RSmotors Well-Known Member

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    I see some inconsistency on the log around 6k. Where the timing would drops a little and go back up. I know that would show on the dyno graph but it doesn't seem to show it on your graph. This is the part where I would sacrifice a little power to get a smoother graph or up the timing in that area and hope it takes it. Only the first and second to last didn't have any and pretty smooth timing curve.
     
  9. Dream
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    Dream Well-Known Member

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    Awesome post Nate, thanks for the info. And the GMBCS is silent, if you mount it in the right spot. ;)
     
  10. Shibbs
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    Shibbs The Daywalker

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    Yes, I just moved mine and it is silent now.

    Especially silent, being as the car has been sitting for over 2 weeks now. lol
     
  11. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, some of the logs have some learned timing pulls and/or slight knock as I was attempting to get logs all right in the same IAT range for numerical comparison, and not just the best ones.

    On my car, I change my negative feedback correction timing retard number to half of the stock value, so any single knock events will not make a huge impact on the road dyno.
     
  12. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Also, Ronnie, would you be willing to share some logs of similar cars and modifications from your dyno tuning experience? Personally, I would be very interested to see if the dyno loads differently, if limited airflow through an IC makes a difference, or if there are any other quirk differences.
     
  13. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Here's some more info from logging the 18g today. Cold air is quite fun and makes absolutely ridiculous dyno numbers :).

    Code:
    RPM	Timing	Throt	Load	IDC	IAT	MRP	MAF	WGDC
    2230	25	100	1.34	15.74	52	1.85	50.06	87.06
    2315	24	100	1.44	17.32	52	3.04	56.77	87.06
    2452	21.5	100	1.62	19.97	52	4.54	66.64	86.67
    2582	20.5	100	1.78	23.24	50	6.34	77.19	84.31
    2736	18.5	100	1.99	27.55	50	8.85	93.5	82.35
    2922	15	100	2.29	35.7	50	12.19	116.67	74.9
    3102	11	100	2.87	48.85	50	16.76	149.32	64.71
    3337	10	100	3.38	65.1	50	21.53	194.24	60
    3676	11	100	3.51	72.34	50	22.43	215.86	59.61
    3899	11	100	3.44	72.03	50	22.02	220.79	59.22
    4083	11	100	3.39	75.81	50	21.96	229.68	58.82
    4308	11	100	3.39	80	50	21.81	245.07	59.61
    4529	12	100	3.35	82.24	50	21.47	251.64	59.22
    4743	12	100	3.3	84.33	50	20.95	261.88	59.61
    4986	12.5	100	3.25	87.52	50	20.55	268.82	59.61
    5151	13	100	3.17	88.16	50	19.78	273.65	60
    5388	13	100	3.12	91.16	52	19.47	278.49	60
    5529	13.5	100	3.05	91.92	52	18.87	279.57	59.22
    5744	13.5	100	2.94	90.35	52	18.55	281.78	56.86
    5853	14	100	2.88	92.38	52	18.1	280.66	53.73
    6078	14.5	100	2.79	91.62	52	17.16	280.68	52.16
    6226	15.5	100	2.7	91.07	52	16.63	278.49	50.59
    6314	16	100	2.64	92.56	50	16.14	278.49	49.41
    6515	17	100	2.59	93.18	52	15.92	280.66	49.02
    6648	18.5	100	2.53	92.46	50	15.63	277.96	49.8
    
    Excel Dyno, numbers compared to 70 degree weather, car weight normalized:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. idget
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    idget Want to pokéman? PM ShortytheFirefighter Staff Member

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    Juuuuust a little bit :biggrin:

    Max load compared to stock is hilarious... happens earlier too.
     
  15. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I was meaning to, but forgot to post this comparison.

    Lots of people discuss the difference between the different 18g turbos. This is a dyno comparison of my TD05 18g 7cm to an TD05 18g 8cm that I tuned last fall. I attempted to normalize for different intake temps.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Tdagen
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    Tdagen Well-Known Member

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    Cool thread...
     
  17. bobafett04wrx
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    bobafett04wrx New Member

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    I wish I had a 2.5l
     

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