2001 2.5RS NA 4EAT swap to 93 Legacy 5MT

Alright - so this is the end of the night update.

Made way less progress than I had hoped. Lots more to do.

Tranny and diff's are drained, exhaust is out, driveshaft's out, front axles disconnected (we burned a lot of time on this today), automatic shifter thingy is out, pedal box is swapped.

Next up I need to get the cooler lines off the tranny, pull the rear diff out, and get the 4EAT out. Then, of course, installing all the clutch stuff and lifting the 5MT in, and finally hooking up the driveshaft and axles.

Here's the problem. I've got no one to help for the rest of the weekend and this is definitely not a one-man project (not to mention that I'm a bit short on experience).


So, I know practically none of you know me or have even met me, but I could really use some assistance.

I'm a good dude and love my Subaru and I'm trying to make this work and learn in the process.

Free soda or beer and pizza or Chipotle for anyone who comes help - I don't know what more I can offer.

I put 12 hours into this today. I'll be back out here at 11am tomorrow morning.


EDIT: I just noticed sort of disturbing closed thread on this site and thought I would say this:
I'm not looking for people to do the work for me on this project; just looking for some assistance and a little bit of experience & knowledge in the room. Plus, it's way funner to work with someone.
I realize that I bit off a chunk bigger than I thought I could chew and that I might land myself in a bit of a pickle with an un-driveable car for a while. Risk I decided I was willing to take for the end result and the experience I'll gain in the process.
Tranny's are heavy. Help would be nice. If I get none I will continue to trudge my way through this.

Huge thanks to everyone who has offered advice and info so far. Major thanks to Dynapar and 9blackmax6 and EJ22Tim for helping me get this far.


/late-night-dog-tired-rambling

 

Start of day 2.

I already feel beaten by this project. So much so that I just spent an hour trying to line up a car to borrow since I feel certain that this will not get finished this weekend.

Sucks, cause I think if we'd have had one more person yesterday it would be practically done. Sucks cause one more person with experience had repeatedly said all week they would come help - was the only reason I dove into it this weekend. Had I thought it would have waited to start.

Enough whining.

Now I have to try to disconnect the starter and the AT cooler lines. Maybe start loosening some bolts on the AT. Might try to swap out the rear. If I make good headway and feel brash I might even wrap some straps around the AT and try to start lowering it. We'll see.

Will probably do some wiring if I can get the AT out a bit - just need to see where my connectors are and how long my wires need to go.

Did find that on the 5MT there are a couple plugs - one closes a switch when you go into reverse, the other closes a switch when you shift into any forward gear. That means I can always tell if the tranny's in neutral, though I'll have to use a relay to reverse the action, so that the relay's open whenever the tranny's in reverse or 1-5 and closed otherwise.

I should be able to wire that in as the neutral safety switch. I should probably also combine that with the switch on the clutch pedal so that pushing in the clutch also closes what was the neutral safety switch.

Then, it seems from what I've read that leaving the TCU hooked up will allow me to retain ABS and avoid any potential high-rev idle problems. Of course, I'll also have to use my relay to tell the TCU that the car's in park/neutral or drive accordingly.

The main AT wiring harness has a pair of wires corresponding to each possible gear in the AT. I can simply close a switch on the park wires or close a switch on the 4th gear wires (don't think it will really matter which gear as long as it's one of them).

I'm not sure yet if wiring that harness will take care of the key release solenoid or if I'll still have to wire that separately (not a big deal either way).


Wiring seems to be the least understood part of doing this swap, so I'm trying to clear that up for everyone while doing this. Just sucks that I'm not as good at the mechanical part (and that I can't just lift the 4EAT!).

 

? - why is there some sheared off pin sticking half an inch out of the axle near the diff (on the left)

and why is there a greenish fluid slowly oozing out of that cap on the top of the diff? It's oozing very, very slowly, but the color is throwing me off. Could the gear oil be that color? And why would anything come out of there?

 

that's the spring pin, coming out of the outer race,
and once again, the fsm is telling me that the pin should be replaced.

 

Any idea why would it be coming out?

 

more info, is this the Legacy differential?
if so, it would be easier to remove the pin
separate the axles from the the diff...

 

I think it's from a WRX. Got it w/ the axles cause I know my RS's diff is an LSD and I'm guessing this ones an open, and I read that the axles are a hair different length between LSD's and open's (like 1cm - even though everything else about them is identical).

This is exactly how I received it, with the pin sticking out.

 

This sucks. I'm in WAY over my head and I've got no backup wheels.

I'm about 5 minutes from calling this a failure and putting it all back together.

 

the pins sticking out so you can pull it out,
you don't want to install the differential with the axles on,
make sure you mark the axles and the diff, so
you can install them in the same place. (with a marker or wax pencil)

 

now looking at the photo, do you have any clue as to how many miles are on the diff?

 

Tim said only a few thou. It sure looks older than that, though, don't it?

 

dont call it quits, you can finish this project. Man I wish I was still in MN I'd head over to help you bust it out.

A tranni swap isnt that huge of an undertaking, but I'm guessing a little more research could have been done before starting.

That pin is easy to replace. Autozone/napa, etc should have them. Phil might be right in that its a lot easier to install the transmission/diff and then insert your axles, especially as you have them disconnected already.

I think just getting ahold of martin (he has done a swap obviously) and or a few of the other guys, you will get loads of help. Mnsubaru is great about standing by and helping people out, dont get down on the project, just get out there and crack away at it.

 

I don't know. I spent nearly 3 full weeks wasting all my time at work reading NASIOC, RS25, Legacy Central, SVX Network, etc. Everything I could find on doing this (and there really isn't that much).

There's just so much to do for one person who has a very minimal amount of mechanical experience. That and I have no backup and can't have no wheels for a week +.

There's no way I can finish this myself and I've got no one to help until at least the middle of the week.

I can however put my car back together and drive the 4EAT until spring and maybe take a crack at it again then.

Martin's been a great help and he sent some really detailed write-ups on how he did his swap. But I can't even get to a parts store to replace a pin cause it's only me and the only car is on jack stands (mine).

I think I'll take a lunch break or something and think about it. It really sucks to get this far and have to call it, but I could find myself seriously f****d if I keep going at this point.


I want this. I want to finish it. I'd even pay someone with some experience to come help me bust it out today and tomorrow, but I'm not getting any bites and I guess I can't blame anyone - everyone's got their own s**t to do.

 

ive never done a tranny swap on a subie....and i have 3riks party to go too....but i could come down and help for a couple hours before the party...

 

If I think I can get the 4EAT completely out by dinner time I'll keep going.

Just requires cooler lines (was about to cut the hoses - that's the point of no return so I've stopped there for now), starter and then unbolting the 4EAT and taking it off.

Think we could get that far? 4EAT completely out?

 

i dont see why not.....

 

Okay, I'll get back under and keep going then. See you soon?

 

yeah i'll head out now.....

 

F*** it. It's now or never.

Big thanks to Wrexinator03 for the help.

 

wrexinator03 SAVED MY PROJECT!!

Thanks a ton, dude. You don't even know. That was SO not a one person job.


Here's a shot of the 4EAT next to the 5MT.

Taking it out wasn't that bad, but we got hung up on some hanging bracket think that was attached to the tranny and the back of the engine compartment right in the middle. Our mistake was not to take it off right away. We ended up having to finesse it out once it was already jamming up the half-out 4EAT.

ATF sucks. It wasn't a terrible mess, but a good deal came out - quicker than I could mop it up.

We also got a couple wiring plugs jammed up, too, and had to get in and disconnect them before we could pull the whole thing out.

A screwdriver and BF Hammer split the tranny from the engine and lots of spirited shaking got it loose.


Also, there's a shot of the side of the 4EAT. Can anyone circle the part that is responsible for sending info to the speedometer?

 

Not really seeing how this comes out. Can anyone give me a hint?

 

I believe there's an access hole on the other side to get to the bolts holding the torque converter on. You'll have to rotate it to get all of them.

 

Thanks. That's a royal PITA to access.

 

PAIN in the BUTT to get to.

im going to get those axles in a bit, I'll call you when I got em. however I dont have a ride so you may have to come to me, sorry.

 

Argh. Stupid.

So, everywhere I kept reading a guy could just plug the sender from the 4EAT for the speed sensor into the 5MT if it was a cable speedo and boom - fixed.

Take a look at this, though.

First, the "nut" on the cable speedo hookup was already cracked.

Second, it's made of a SOFT PLASTIC. Seriously? WTF?

So, I sheared it to pieces trying to get it to twist out.

Lastly, it doesn't really look like the sender from the 4EAT will fit right, and there'll be nowhere to secure it with a bolt. Not to mention that I can't imagine how just pulling the cable one out and plopping that sensor in will work right - they must be quite different internally, no?

Plus, I can't even get the cable one out now without totally wrecking it, potentially leaving a nice sized hole in the tranny.


Anyone got any suggestions?

 

I just got back into town. It looks like things arent quite going your way.

Phi11 is right, that is the roll pin. It is there to help keep the axles from sliding off. Just take it out to get the axle off, then put it back in when you are ready. If its sheered you will want to replace it with a new one at some point, but I dont for see it being a huge issue.

That little cap is a breather hole for the differential. The goo coming out it the gear lube. I know that the LSDs are supposed to have some funky Subaru additive which may make the fluid a green color. you should be fine, just try to keep it right side up.

Well I am not too sure about the compatibility of the digital sender with the analog one. I recall Piddster looked into this for making a 6spd work in his older legacy. I thought he came to the conclusion that it was fairly plug and play.

If it is going to be a huge PITA, dont worry about it. Remove the sender, and put some tape over the hole. you wont have a speedo, but you can go back and install a new speedo cable and guts later. You should be able to steal the part off an any number of cars at a u-pull location. FYI: 2K rpms in 4th = ~40mph, 2750rpms in 5th = ~60mph.

Also your car will idle high for a while after you finish. I was freaked out that my car was idling at 2k rpms but it will go down over time so dont fret about that.

I will pm you my cell number if you have any questions.

 

So, should I just tap on it with a hammer to get it back in? I tried that lightly (didn't want to break anything), but it didn't move.


Any suggestions on how to get that cable speedo thing out now? If I drill it will I be in trouble if shavings drop through the hole into the tranny?

 

Don't seem to see a way to attach the shifter for the 5MT to the car. Am I missing something here?

 

I would guess the shifter ISNT attached to the car per se, but to the gearbox itself...

I am guessing you are still working on this???

I just got back from vacation... very tired.. not sure if the wife would want me bailing out but I will check.. might be able to come up and play... but I have NO experience in one of these swaps, but can usually work out which end of a wrench to use ... let me know if you are still working on it and I will see if I can make it up...

NO promises though....

 

Yeah, still working on it. Right now I just need someone on the other end of a wrench/tranny-on-a-jack. For example, I'm simply staring at the torque converter cause I can't break the bolts and keep the crank from turning at the same time.

If I can just get the torque converter off, get the clutch and stuff installed (would like someone who's done it before - also need to get the pressure plate bolts and alignment tool from EJ22Tim first), and get the 5MT bolted up - then I'm good. I think I can do everything after that myself now.

At some point today, though, I've got to run out and get the remaining parts from EJ22Tim, so I'm not sure how much I'll even be around.

I can maybe take off one more work day this week to try and finish, but it'll be pointless if I take a day and there's no one here but me (unless I've already gotten the tranny in somehow).

If you want to try to swing out today just give me a call first. 612-998-8187. Like I said, though, I may lose a couple hours running around after parts - plus at this point, being a 4pm on a Sunday and that I really can't do much more without extra hands, I'm considering today pretty much a total loss.

So, no worries if you can't/don't make it.


Oh, and as for the shifter - it is attached to the gear box, of course. The bracket I showed looks like it's supposed to attach to the body to sort of hold the whole linkage thing in place in relation to the car, otherwise there's a ton of adjustability in it - like I can move the whole shift lever thing up and down several inches.

 

well if I made the drive from Bloomington what would be the aim for the rest of the evening.. or a few hours at least...

can you go get all the parts you need... then maybe I could come by later on...??

where are you located and do you have a vehicle to run and get parts?? would i need to bring over a selection of tools or you have what you need (seeing as you are this far)...

I just need to know if I should bother.. (I havent got much time in my schedule and tonight is about it).. my wife nodded her head, but I told her I wasnt sure if I was or not till you know for sure what you are doing...

 

just added you to my aol/ichat.... so go on there if you wanna chat about tonights plans... if Tim needs a ride over to help maybe I could run and get him.. if I have to run all over etc.. maybe throw some $$ for gas but either way lets get more done if we can

 

Only tool I'm missing is the alignment tool for the clutch.

I'm waiting on EJ22Tim for the pressure plate bolts.

There's no point in anyone coming here until I have pressure plate bolts, because that would be holding us up in about 15 minutes (only thing before that is removing the torque converter and that doesn't look too hard - just needs two people).

My GF can bring me to get the parts - but she's not really much for holding a rachet.

I'm in St. Louis Park - a little bit off France & Excelsior.

Torque converter off, clutch on, 5MT on. Done. I can take care of everything else.


Let me try to see where Tim's at and get back to you - maybe PM your # or something.

 

pm'ed....

 

im helpin my dad now....im gonna try my best to make it out again..

 

thx for letting me know - I was starting to wonder. We should've exchanged #'s.

Too bad, I got a side job to do before 8am tomorrow and I coulda knocked that out instead of staring at the torque converter for two hours! :ugh: I don't care though.

If I can get to the point of having the 5MT in tonight I'll do the side job at 4am for all I care - take tomorrow off and put everything back together.

I have talked to Tim, though, and I should be heading over for the remaining parts soon.

 

again... I am in... wife is cool with it... kids will be in bed soon after a long day.. so yep yep....

 

im just about finished up..so i may try and make it down there

 

I will be turning up as soon as I get the call that he is on his way home or at home.. then I will need the address

 

Ewing Ave S & W 42nd St
Minneapolis, MN 55410

Will be in a garage in the alley between Ewing and Drew, and 42nd and 41st

there you go nate

 

PMed you back about the TC bolts.

Just need to wedge something in the TC teeth to keep it from moving, while you break those 4 bolts loose. I used a wonder bar against the frame rail.

just a sec and I will put up somethign about that linkage mounting point

 

The thing I circled in the first picture goes by the circle in the second picture. It attached underneath the car. there should be two captive nuts there, they may have 2 plastic circle things covering them up. They may also be covered by undercoating if your car has that. I will try and take a better picture, but it may involve taking apart my center console.

 

Here is a pic of where it attaches. The part labeled back shows the back of the car.

 

heading out the door now....

will bring a few tools in case...

 

Thanks guys!

I'll have to look closer for that mounting point - could very well be hidden by undercoat.

Back from a trip into nowhere to pick up hardware. Ugh.
.

EDIT: Found the mount point - was covered by plastic clips. It's weird to visualize; I keep thinking of the 5MT backwards! :lol: