Another Shootinh at University

See my previous argument. The odds of you being shot by a permit holder are far, far lower than of being shot by someone who shouldn't have that gun. And like I said, a gun ban just creates a free fire zone for someone who wants to shoot the place up, and disarms people who have legally qualified to have a pistol in their possession. You do realize that whenever you walk around there are likely people with guns, both legally and illegally right?

 

Not to mention the fact that there isn't really a way to get rid of the ones already in existence. Why disarm the people who are legally allowed to carry a weapon? A sign is zero deterrence to someone who wants to commit murder.

 

Well said.

It should also be said that for those who have the permits and carry on a regular basis I highly advocate regular practice and further training with their firearm. If you're going to carry it, you should know how to use it and use it well. That means not only being able to shoot well, but being able to know when to shoot and when to unarse the area in a hurry and also being able to do things like reload under stress and clear a malfunction.

 

Do you pat fluffy bunnies on the head in fairy tale land all day? Jesus dude, go shoot a damn gun and tell me it isn't a great time. Gun facination is no different than car fascination. I'm intrigued by hundreds of different cars because each one had some sort of detail that someone spent alot of time perfecting, and each one has strengths and weaknesses...they are interesting. Same thing with guns, each one does the same thing, but they all do it in their own unique way. Fire a few guns and you learn to appreciate the craftsmanship of a good gun vs. a subpar weapon. The way they feel in the hands, and the way they kick when fired. Accuracy. Action. Seriously, there are all sorts of things about guns that are fascinating if you aren't a dopey simpleton. What fascinates you, Taras? Tell us so we can berate you for the things you are fascinated by. I bet it is bright lights and colors, but I'll let you go ahead and tell us.

 

Since when are hobbies supposed to be productive? What's productive about tuning a car? Or building models, or painting or any other hobby? It's something to do because you enjoy doing it, and because you gain a skill set. Any moron can shoot a gun, but it takes skill to do it well and to do it correctly. Some people enjoy doing that, just like others enjoy putting a new turbo on their car and taking it to the track. I too would love to see what you judge as being more productive. By the way, it's fascinated and fascination.

Do you mind if I ask if you grew up around guns or not? It seems like you have some sort of fear of guns, and I'd be curious to know what that stems from.

 

And what the hell does this have **** TO DO WITH SOMEONE HAVING A GUN HOBBY?!?!?!?
It has NOTHING to do with a gun hobbyist. NOTHING AT ALL. You're jabbering on again. You have a car hobby. There are people in this world that think that car hobbyists have pointless hobbies that are non-productive and stupid...and I know that is tough for you to wrap your tiny brain around, you know, people having different viewpoints. What makes a car tuner, or a model plane builder or a stamp collector any more productive than a gun enthusiast? Nothing. None of those things are any more 'productive.' And gun enthusiasts have NOTHING to do with mafia people burning your house down. And with this addition to your record of ignorant and stupid posts, I'm going to go ahead and add you to my ignore list. I've decided that you are in fact too stupid and ignorant to pay attention to. You see everything from your mindless tunnelvision view of the world. And you'll try your damnedest to say that this post shows that I'm no different. But that of course will be based on your inability to read and comprehend the english language. You'll look right past the part where I asked you to differentiate between gun enthusiasts and car enthusiasts and stamp collectors and such, and go right for the part where I called you ignorant, which you are, very very ignorant. Your track record of posts thus far are nothing short of idiotic. And I'm done dealing with the gritting of the teeth every time I come to this site. You are the root cause, your ******* posts cause me to clench my teeth so hard that they squeak. And it is because your posts are so frustratingly stupid that I can't even begin to accept them in any human sense, and must resort to vicious animal instincts. The most basic, caveman like instincts, because your posts are in line with the intelligence of cavemen. It is like you read things, then you beat your face against rocks while painting pictures of herd mammals on the walls with a ragged up twig. Then you sit down in front of the internet and try to translate the buffalo scrawlings into relevant posts about the topic. Which is completely impossible.

So, from this point forward you will be on my ignore list. I will not respond to your posts, I will not answer your PMs. And so help me God, don't ever come up to me in person to say something to me unless it is to apologize for infecting me with your special blend of stupid with every post of yours that I've read.

 

So, from what I can gather based on your "argument" (Quotes in place because you didn't really make one, just an off topic tangent) you're saying that you don't like guns and you don't feel that people should be allowed to carry them because you're afraid of getting shot by a stable, normal person who gets mad at you. There are a few glaring problems with you getting into this debate:

1. From your OP, it's pretty apparent that you couldn't even bother to do a Google search on what's required to buy a gun. You want to debate something but you don't bother to actually learn anything about what you're debating. What's the point? You just make yourself look worse than you already do.

2. You seem incapable of looking at things from a different point of view. Tell me why a car hobby or a stamp collecting hobby is more productive than a gun hobby. I know families where guns are an integral part of growing up. Only a small percentage of the guns produced have ever killed someone, the majority are used for hunting and target practice or collecting. Why is that so evil?

3. You have yet to offer a point/counterpoint to legalized carry and gun ban zones. You put up one post where you talked about being afraid of being shot by someone. Have you ever bothered to at least look at the things you're taught in the carry classes? The majority of the topics covered are when you CANNOT use your weapon, places you should NOT carry (yes, bars are a big one) as well as conflict avoidance and the importance of backing down in a fight. There are 4 very specific criteria that have to be met before deadly force can be used:

Reasonably in immediate fear of death or great bodily harm:
This must be an immediate threat, not just a verbal threat to injure or kill. It means you are looking at being injured so badly that death, disfigurement or being crippled are possibilities. Being punched or beat up does not qualify. However, it is not necessary for your attacker to have a weapon, as a 5' 100lb person vs a 6' 200lb person, or a person in a wheelchair are at a greater risk of great bodily injury. Distance is also not critical, if you cannot retreat you don't have to wait until they're close enough to inflict injury.

Reluctant Participant:
You cannot voluntarily enter a confrontation (ie if you enter an argument that escalates, the other three are invalidated) but this does not mean you can't come to the defense of another. The other three criteria must be met however.

No Reasonable Means of Retreat:
You are expected to retreat from a dangerous situation if you can do so safely, and that obligation never ends. If you wound someone and that opens up the window to retreat safely, you have to retreat. You are not expected to retreat from a bad situation to a worse one. If your only means of retreat is through a busy road or a burning building you do not have to expose yourself to greater danger. You also do not have to leave behind a loved one who might not be able to keep up.

No Lesser Force Will Do:
If deadly force isn't required, you must come up with another alternative. You also must stop using force as soon as the threat stops, so you don't finish the wounded guy off with two in the skull after you've already put him down. The condition of the victim and attacker matter. A 200lb man being attacked by a 100lb woman has lesser force alternatives open to him. The reverse situation is different, and the woman (this is just an example, not meant to be sexist) may have to resort to deadly force as there may be no alternatives. You may only use deadly force to meet deadly force.

Without meeting those criteria, the shooter opens themselves up to liability and prosecution. Remember what I told you earlier? Out of all the permits issued there has been one gun related crime by a permit holder in MN. In the class we're taught that by carrying a gun any actions we take can be perceived much differently and so we have to act accordingly. Cut off in traffic? Smile and wave and give them space. It's not a license to become Dirty Harry, permit holders are held to a much higher standard. Conflict avoidance is the rule, not the exception.

4. I've learned by now that you're not going to bother researching the opposing viewpoint unless someone points you in the right direction, and even then it's unlikely. Why would you bother posting if you have no idea what you're talking about? You talk about this "fascination" like we just sit around and drool over guns, imparting your condescension to someone who doesn't share your "enlightened" viewpoint. You don't bother to look at it as a social thing (gasp! Just like going to Firestone!) where people can get together and have some fun and compare and improve skill levels (kinda like drag racing, rallycross or autocross. Imagine that...) in something they enjoy. It seems like in your eyes we're all just waiting for the chance to carve another notch in our grips rather than enjoying a hobby. I would bet that none of us have a desire to shoot another human being, but if placed in a situation where it was necessary then we'd be going home to our family at the end of the day rather than being killed ourselves but I'm betting you're not noticing the line between murder and self defense.

 

Ask and ye shall receive I've got three of them...

http://mnsubaru.com/forums/showthread.php?p=415890#post415890

You and Jason are more than welcome to come up and shoot 'em anytime.

 

I would have said trolling too, but he's too stupid to have the pre-thought required to come up with an effective troll. Instead I think he is simply just an idiot that fires off his nonsensical posts from the hip without even stopping to think about whether they are relevant or even use common sense. The post about the mafia burning his house down is just one example. The first 10 pages of the WMC thread are another. He's just painfully stupid is all. But I wont complain if you give him points for being a troll, but I just think that doing so would be encouraging him into thinking he was smart enough to be a troll when, in fact, he was just being his usual stupid ass self and then when everyone told him how dumb he was he gave us the "i was doing it because you get mad" defense.

 

No, and No. This has nothing to do with my political affiliation. You said that you don't understand the fascination people have with guns. And we told you that people have hobbies, be it guns, cars, or whatever. Then you fly off the handle with some ******* remark about your house getting burned down by the mafia. Sorry, that post is stupid. Very stupid. And completely unrelated to the subject matter of this thread. You are also stupid because you can't make the connection between a hobby like cars or stamp collecting and guns. They are all hobbies. Everyone has different interests. YOUR personal lack of interest in one man's hobby does not make it any less of a hobby to them. And then you went on to say that it wasn't productive. Is your car hobby productive? No it isn't. So, please, tell me, what is the difference? That is my arguement here. Every time you've been presented with an argument in this thread with regards to a stupid comment you've made, you would make another stupid and irrelevant post. So, for once, will you please answer my question on this subject. I'll even be nice and re write the question again so you can read it all by itself...since I know how much you like your thoughts to be completely segregated from reality.

The question posed is this:

"How is a gun enthusiasts hobby any different or any less productive than a car enthusiast's hobby or a stamp collector, or someone that builds model planes?"

Answer that question, or shut the hell up. Those are your choices. My political views (which you've completely failed on identifying) are not the subject, the government, your selfimportant need to tell us how liberal you are, none of those things are the subject. Answer the question. And no, no matter how many times you tell me that you made your stupid posts to get a rise out of people, I wont believe you. Because, history has proven with you that you make stupid comments because you are stupid. Not because you are some intelligent and sly mastermind of the english language and sarcasm.

So, yeah, answer the question, or just shut the **** up.

 

1) I can read your posts if I click the "read post" button. Since my last post was directed at you, I clicked the button so I could read your reply.

2) No, I don't need anger management. I handle my anger just fine. People are allowed to be angry. Especially when faced with frustration.

3) I did say you called me stupid.

4) Thanks for answering the question. Now go back to your posts and see where you got all on a high horse about how you weren't fascinated with guns but other people were and you said it was an unpoductive waste of time. If you don't like someone's hobby, cool, but don't tell them theirs is a waste of time. All hobbies are a waste of time. Including your car hobby. Your posts smacked of high horsed self-importance.

 

To be honest, you haven't really said much about this or any other issue, just some disjointed rambling that's lacking in common sense or logic. You couldn't even bother to do any reading before you posted up on mental background checks for gun owners, if you had you wouldn't have needed to add that to your first post. Here's a good rule of thumb: If you think it's a good idea, it's probably already been done. I highly doubt that there's a big movement of people on this board who agree with what you're saying and they just don't have the stones to say anything about it. That's the beauty of this board, we get to speak our minds (within certain boundaries) and since most of us know each other we can have these debates. I know that my viewpoints are different from other peoples on this board, and I'm fine with that. Those people are capable of putting up a well informed, educated argument. I have yet to see you make one post that would qualify as that. Plus the fact that you just admitted you're trolling the forums just makes you look worse. If people agreed with you, they'd come in and back you up. Jason and I aren't the Godzillas of the board, we just happen to be able to express ourselves without looking like we were pounding our faces into the keyboard.

Your "arguments" transcended political views and defied common sense and common knowledge. Now that you've admitted you're the troll I suspected I can stop putting time and energy into trying to educate you on an opposing viewpoint. Not converting you, just educating you. I could care less if you are a Republican, a Democrat or a believer in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Your statement that you view things "skeptically" made me laugh so hard I peed a little. And when you're making statements like "There should be a mental check for gun buyers" and the like then you really don't have any idea what the hell you're talking about. Two seconds on Google would've educated you on the issue at hand and then you could have saved the wasted bandwidth. See my previous statement about my views on opposing viewpoints. I have no problem with them as long as you have at the very least a general idea of what the hell you're talking about. Let me put this a little bit simpler:

I don't think that anyone who has an opposing viewpoint is an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about. I think you're an idiot with an opposing viewpoint who doesn't know what he's talking about. Go troll somewhere else.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/20/cnnu.guns/index.html

Thought this article was pretty relevant, looks at both sides of the armed students issue.