I haven't seen any threads on the forum discussing these two and thought I would open up a discussion. I personally ( as a newly founded ST fanboiiii) are annoyed by Subaru's seeming lacking drive to maintain itself in the performance market. Obviously those of us who are long time fans will likely remain fans regardless of the direction of the sportier cars the company makes, but I could see how a new car enthusiast wouldn't fall in love the way a lot of us have. I guess in my head I was just hoping for a huge STi overhaul in 2018 to combat the RS. The RA obviously is pretty damn purpose built for what Subaru wants to do at the ring. The BRZ however, I feel like was a major missed opportunity. I saw someone on Youtube make the comment that people that want a BRZ already have one and those that are on the edge likely would be drawn in by more power not increased handling. Though, the wheels and tires upgrade I love. This turned into a bit of a hate thread but in no way do I now hate Subaru (even though I own an ST now BUILT FORD TOUGHish). What are your thoughts on the new trims and opinions on the direction on the brand?
I would rather have a Blue Series than the tS myself. I am on the opposite end of the spectrum. I really enjoyed the BRZ that i test drove-twice lol (thanks again @JasonoJordan ). I think of the BRZ as more of a "Miata" type car. Bang for the buck...check, good looks...yup, and agile and confident...check and check. I think that it was a great attempt at an unknown realm to Subaru. A 2 door sport coupe that is rear wheel drive. Should they offer a turbo model, sure, I suppose that they should. Would i buy it over the NA, doubtful. As i've mentioned in the past, i would have absolutely loved to see it with a 3.3L H6.
Haha, you see everyone blasting Subaru on their Facebook page? Lot of butthurt going on there. I think BRZ fans will NEVER be happy unless they slap a turbo on it and call it a day. They threw the STi catalog at it except for the engine. It looked like the RA package was going to be a limited edition model, so I'd like to see what the dealer markup on those is going to be. As for the 'ring, they already made a NBR RA package (think it was 2012), but of course we never got it over here, along with all the S200 models. So I think most die hard fans are used to getting shafted on fun packages for cars, they have a STi BRZ, Forester, Levorg etc. over in Japan and Europe. Look at the general consensus, and the main reason a lot of people switched over to the RS was because Subaru said FU to customers and didn't offer a hatch package for the STi. If you read some of the keynotes from the prez of Subaru, he said that by around 2020 90% of the fleet of Subarus were going to be turbocharged. More people are going to be drawn to the BRZ, since the competitors scrapped one of the models (Scion Tc dead). If it's not enough power, you could always opt for a crazy build, like the V12 quad turbo GT86 that someone made!
My opinion is still the BRZ is amazing, I'm going off what people seem to want not what I would want.
It almost looks like a Blue Series with an additional carbon fiber wing. Motor Trend said the estimated price for the tS is around $35k.
SO being I do have a brz I will weight in here a bit. Does the BRZ lack some power? Yes. However, does it need a turbo or supercharger to be what it was designed to be? No. I am super happy with how the car performs now with headers and catless exhaust as well as a e85 tune. These mods alone I feel make the BRZ what it should of been from the factory. All the new revisions (series blue, STI, RA) are mostly asthetics aside from some different dampers larger brakes (Totally unnecessary for the car stock as the stock tires are way under sized for the brakes) and the rear diff gear ratio change. So now onto the question of what I think about going FI on the BRZ. While the extra power sure would be nice the price you pay for the extra power is just not worth it. Not only money wise but in a lot of cases most people don't know when to stop and it takes a huge impact reliability wise. The route I went knowing full well I would be one of the people that if I did boost it then I would not be able to stop is I went out and bought a 2nd car that is already boosted. Sure not all people are in the financial or living arrangement that would let you be able to do this but personally IMO this is the best way to get best of both worlds. Also to address the question of why they have not turbocharged it from the factory. Plain and simple it would cost to much. BRZ now cost around 30k depending on your option and your negotiating skills. Add a factory turbo into the mix and your looking at IMO a minimum of 5-7k increase in price. That is STI money right there. No way is Subaru going to jeopardize sales of its bread and butter(Talking performance side of things we all know the Impreza and Forester are the true bread and butter) just to appease a few thousand BRZ owners. FYI I will possibly be bringing both cars to LAX this year so if anyone is curious of how the BRZ is after a few tasteful mods let me know and we could prob work out something for you to take it for a spin.
@JasonoJordan you could take mine if this year if you want. I have a base model BRZ. It was fine from factory. But I had other plans. The BRZ was NEVER meant to be max performance car. It was supposed to be cheapish Miata competitor. For the guys that didn't want to buy a miata because of the stigma. So I don't really understand why everyone is up in arms that it isn't turbocharged. There are more than enough companies out there that you can get one added for almost the same cost as buying a factory turbo car. Just my .02.
Lol we will see what happens. Mine could use the drive time as well...think I have put maybe 2000 miles on it this year.
Back on topic though, I personally don't think they should change anything with it. Leave it an NA. They could maybe use some better materials knowing that people are going to upgrade the dog snot out of them. Like the cam plate and internals. Wheel and tire upgrades sure are fine, but that wing....sad face.
Or maybe the team up with Porsche and make it a real performance car...if that's what people are complaining about. Like the 944 only better. A budget Subaporsche.
Alright alright. Jason, your wife is driving your wagon, my wife is driving mine, and we're driving a pair of BRZ. Moar Subarus is never a bad thing.
@Kneel Weiß @JasonoJordan I'll chime in on the ts front as well. I think the car is plenty fun NA. I've driven a sprintex supercharged one and it was fun too, but drove like a completely different car. I prefer wringing the gears out on the NA car better. I didn't expect factory F/I on the ts but I was a little disappointed that it is so similar looking to the series blue or current PP with a cheesy spoiler that looks too narrow.
That's my issue with the BRZ... it's not cheap and the value isn't there for me even at the base pricepoint. FRS is closer. Still not at miata level, especially now that they look pretty damn decent. For a performance version of the car, I'd expect measurable and meaningful performance gains. "Meaningful" for a street car is certainly debatable, but the market shows that 0-60 times and peak hp figures sell cars. Subaru is entitled to go against the grain here, but personally, I don't think it's doing the brand any favors. fwiw, ~250-300 NA with a slightly higher redline would be the sweetspot for me on the current chassis.
Those that are shallow and insecure enough to believe in the Miata's "stigma" should stick with Camaros or douchebro gigantic-lifted-flared-painted yellow-stupid loud turbo diesel-crew cab-trucks that never go offroad or tow anything. (like my neighbor a few houses down who must be very poorly endowed...) Regarding the BRZ: The internet experts screaming about a lack of forced induction are (as has been said may times) missing the point. No, it doesn't need a turbo. 1/4 mile times and power oversteer are not the priority. Trying to position it to compete with more powerful cars would make it larger, heavier, and more expensive. I have not driven a BRZ, but I wager that 200 HP is subjectively not underpowered for the weight of the car. As mentioned above, FI adds cost. And weight. A small, light, lively, visceral car with a linear and free revving N/A motor is a beautiful thing. There is no reason to come out with a factory forced induction BRZ as the aftermarket has that covered well already. I'm of the opinion Subaru expected that. If Subaru ever did a factory turbo, it would surely be expensive, and probably less powerful than the aftermarket FI systems already out, making it pointless. Subaru wouldn't overpower the chassis from the factory. All that said, I have owned a turbo Mazdaspeed Miata and an N/A Miata. I liked the turbo better ONLY because the N/A '94 that I owned had something like twelve horsepower. The MSM still only had 170 HP. That was enough for that car to feel better balanced and not underpowered. It was also a miniscule turbo and had very little lag. This does contradict the above a little, but If Mazda had a 170 HP N/A motor to put into the Miata at that time, it would have been much sweeter. I agree. Neither is a Miata purchased new. That's why I would only buy either used.
Not anymore anyway. At least there's the fiata. The badge alone will eventually tank used (and probably new) value.
This was what made me want to start this thread. I think the BRZ is a crazy good platform but it's pretty spendy and just makes it look like subaru is being lazy on the performance side
The BRZ/FRS are damn good driving cars. Damn good at 10/10. Kind of boring when driven at 5/10 or on the street. They could definitely use a boost in power. I don't think forced induction, but good tuning, a few aftermarket bits and the car transforms. In the autocross world, the BRZ has taken a back seat to the FRS. Seems silly, but the FRS is set up much better with factory options for autocross in stock form than the BRZ. Subaru dropped the ball regarding factory performance upgrades and is playing catch up to Toyota. Now just give me a new WRX hatchback and we'll call it even...
Yeah, but then you'd get a Fiat motor. Ugh. Even if it is the one out of the Abarth. And, again, with a turbo.
Send me a PM @tangledupinblu or @idget. It needs the miles this year. Trying to get a wash before some minor work gets done on the cam plate and she should be fit as a fiddle.
Here is something for everyone to digest that are praising what Ford has done with the RS, shouldn't be that much of a shocker. I was at Boxerfest on Sunday, both cars look amazing in person, the BRZ especially. I had a long conversation with David Higgins about the RA and he told me that the other week they were comparing a RS, STI, and Type RA at a track. As an experiment they outfitted both the stock STI and the RA with same tires as the RS. Stock STI was quicker around the track by 2 secs and the RA was quicker by 6 seconds all with less power. Sorry my pictures suck but I have video that I have yet to edit.
