Have fun: http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/sh...le-for-Subaru-AccessPORTs&p=651269#post651269 I'm kind of curious how the FFS works under the covers. Anyone using that currently?
I had ffs on my WRX before I blew it up, it was awesome, you could shift a lot smoother if you did it just right. Launch control was awesome too, but I think it was hard on the turbo and didn't help with my engine problems.
Always thought FFS was a weird name for it, it's "No Lift To Shift" the mitsu world. However the idea of having that on my RSTi is exciting! I know they just hired Tephra, which is the guy that found the launch control and NLTS in the Evos. I wonder if he's the one behind it.
When did you add this to your driving program...lol Now do you just place your foot there or do you WOT and clutch shift? I kid. The good old days of 1320's! It's amazing how one trate doesn't always translate well into another.
FFS sounds cool but I don't see how it's going to help you unless you're running a BIG turbo that will require keeping the rev's up at a high RPM range.
From what it says, it keeps you in boost. I'm sure that helps in general with turbo cars. I know I'm not a big fan of the lag on my stock TD04 lol....(yes I'm serious.)
While that is the selling point of FFS, if for example your TD04 torque band only lasts for +/-2000 revs worthy of power band and is a low to mid range turbo it's not going to keep pushing last 5k. If anything you'll start to see the power taper off. Though some may think it's cool to redlining in every shift, I'm more content to short shift and not FFS allowing the rev's to get behind the rpm's that do count where the powa starts. There's another element in FFS which plays another critical role in going fast for the wrong reasons. It's not so much of an issue in softer pressing clutches, but in race or aggressive applications the abrupt shifting of weight transfer from the FFS will cause your car to slow down from multiple instances of loss of traction and upsetting the forward momentum. But I won't know since I'm not a drag racer, maybe they can speak to that, yo!
Not necessary a bad example but a realistic one to say the least. Just figuratively speaking just from the dyno graph's I've seen over the years and butt dyno of course and from the way they're tuned it would be difficult to see much gain from FFS from a TD-06 20G or less on a Suby but I could be wrong as Google does lie from time to time.
Tephra is strictly developing the mitsu stuff. They hired romraiders main guy and he's strictly developing the subaru stuff. The ffs and lc has been available for the open source guys for about 3 years now.
Most definitely I've yet to receive the latest MS 1320 Security Patching. Every time I try and access the Drag Racing program I receive an error message "The resource you're requesting is unavailable. Error code: 404 Please contact your administrator."
I never used the launch control or FFS switch on my turbo RS but I think that was because I didn't need it with the limited amount of boost I was running but I think also because I had run out of I/O on the E6K. However I might consider it on the Spec B as the AVO 450 doesn't hit peak torque until late. I think the drivetrain is up to it but I think I would need to make sure the junk in the engine bay is up to the task.
So I tried FFS just for kicks this weekend. Not impressed. Kind of a neat feature I guess but I'd rather the car just do what I told it to.
I think I'm OK there once I get used to the shift. I've launched rally cars with ALS and boxes of straight-cut gears (which didn't have FFS oddly). Problem is that any public road I'd only get to 4th doing this, the rest would be wasted. Nearest road course to me doesn't even need 5th. Maybe if I were tackling the oval at Texas Motor Speedway but once was enough for me on that track.
It's not just for keeping big turbos spooled... On my Evo (stock turbo) a non-limited rev drop (just keeps dropping) will result in ~10psi being retained in the piping between shifts, a limited rev drop of 800rpm (where it drops 800rpms and rev-limits) results in ~17psi being retained in the piping. Along side that, it makes rev matching the upshift effortless, which naturally allows on-the-power shifting mid corner without worrying about shocking the rear end loose. But that's my experience with the Mitsu system. Not sure how setup or tweaking of the Subi system is different.
Hi cmspaz, great feed back, I'm not an expert here just trying to understand what you just described. Thanks Doesn't corn allow the torque to hold on longer and add more on top? Are you still running a stock clutch? Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're still running on mostly stock but with E85 and your rev's are dropping that quickly shifting might be a little slow; but could be due to multiple reasons, clutch work, pressing the paddle down lower than needed, faulty shift knob, you don't have the skull head model, and granny shifting the lever. And I understand it's not always the best idea to shift quickly in an EVO. I'm just trying to understand what going on here. I would think FFS in mid corner would do the opposite and upset the rear end, due to the engine rev's at WOT are more than the drive lines turning.
Goliad! Maybe you can be the first legacy... actually probably Subaru... to break 200mph at the Texas mile! I suppose you'll need more than just FFS for that though
Those banks would have been terrifying in either of my Legacies. They were intimidating enough in the Corvettes they put us in :eek4:
Yes, I am on the stock clutch. Effectively what I have are two different setups for two different purposes. I guess I should start out by explaining, the Mitsu system is triggered by the upper clutch switch and has 3 settings; minimum speed, minimum load, and maximum rev drop. Minimum speed is obvious, minimum load should be as well (but is set by default at 150% so you're at least committed to boost and a somewhat high throttle position before it kicks in). Maximum rev drop effectively sets a rev limit at X rpm below where the clutch was disengaged. So the system works as such: You're at WOT, you hit whatever your shift point is, and you disengage the clutch. This triggers NLTS, the ecu cuts fuel, and the revs drop. If the revs drop below shift point-X rpm, the ecu will return fuel, and impose a rev limit at that point. Otherwise the revs will continue to drop until they reach X or the clutch is re-engaged. Engine operation is resumed normally once the upper clutch switch is depressed again by the pedal, presumably after a gear change has occurred. Now, as for setting X... if you set it at, say, 800rpm drop, the car will likely rev limit around once or twice before you finish the shift, keeping a higher pressure in the charge piping, reducing lag but putting the same strain on the drivetrain as a normal hard shift (i.e. you clunk the rear end pretty damn good). If you set it below the rpm drop to the next gear, like 1500rpm, you can actually smooth out the shifting and take a large chunk of that strain away. For daily driving, I use the latter setting, which is why I'm dropping rpm that far. I'm perfectly capable of shifting faster, I just choose not to in the interest of saving wear on the car. In effect, it's more rev matching than anti-lag.
csmpaz- thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. This system is quite interesting. I was thinking along the same lines while reading until I got to the end that it's for rev matching. Does it work the same for downshifts into a turn? And down a straight? I would suspect it's design to rev match and keep the rev's up for a smoother engagement. Does this mean you can eliminate Heel Toe? Ah the beauty of Drive by Wire. Shifting fast is over rated!!!
I would think that you would set it up to drop the rev's X amount and then hold it. This works well for holding boost on upshifts. NOT to blip the throttle and move the rev's upwards, which would be needed to rev match downshifts. This would make normal driving impossible. The car doesn't know if you're going to be shifting up or down, so it could only be set up one way. EDIT: I don't actually know how the system works. I was just speculating. It seems possible that software could be written to blip the throttle when you shift, but it would be highly impractical because it would also be blipping on upshifts, and that wouldn't be much good, lol.
I don't think it's dynamic enough to give you something comparable to heel toe shifting. The rev limit is static so even setting it high with the intention of using it for down shifts you would still need to be pretty damn smooth to deal with re-engagement. It's not automagically rev matching for you, it only targets a predefined limit. If you were really, really good and could constantly find your gear at precisely 5.5k (or what have you) while working your way through a corner then I suppose you could theoretically use straight left foot braking and keep the accelerator mashed the whole way through the corner. It wouldn't give you much benefit anyway unless you really wanted to be on full throttle immediately after the shift, which isn't always the case... Sidenote: It's almost impossible to heel toe a 2010 LGT. Brake pedal sits way higher than the accelerator and there's practically no room to the right of the gas.
It unfortunately only works for upshifts, you still have to manually heel-toe your downshifts. Be nice if it could eliminate that, though.
I have a few of those silly idea's myself. LOL Very good question. Ideally you don't want to, but if you're running out of gears like say you're driving a JDM DC2 Integra VTec at BIR coming into turn 3. You're carrying enough speed into the turn and you're running out of rev's. Now you're put into a pickle here, you'll have to decide if want to catch that rookie 2010 STI smoking on that GT35 or back off and wait for corner exit and watch him dip into turn 4. I personally would give that 2010 STI a run for it's money, pop it into 4th gear at mid corner and plant that paddle. Since it's FWD I don't think we'll have to worry too much about oversteer.
Sometimes my failure to see the most simple solutions ever astonishes even me. I need to go check in to whether I can adjust the clutch switch sensor anyway, might as well toss this on the heap.
