Please let me know why or why not a person should or should not tune for e-85. My Plans, I will be tuning a Td06h 20g with an APS TMIC on an 06' wrx w/19,000 miles, Loooking for reliability and a good amount of HP. Please let me know your opinions and why you would or would not tune for e-85. thank you,:biggrin:
e85 is bad for cars, bad for the environment, bad for the economy (long term) but it's cool to be able to say your car runs on booze
I was going to tune for E85. I talked to WallofTv's about it and decided not to. Its not something you can just tune once and be ok. You have to check your A/F ratio every time you fill up. Because E85 content changes from station to station. So I opted not to cause I am lazy. But I think you just have to make slight changes.
So it is not regulated like regular petrol?:roll: the only neg I was aware of till now was that it eats you gaskets. Is that true?
Agreed. The price of corn for animal feed is going through the roof because of it. Plus the gov. subsidizes it. E85 costs like 4-5 bucks to produce.
has anyone done this localy? and anyone going to make a case for tuning with e-85? It would be cool to put an E-85 sticker on you gas lid!
no it's bad for the environment because you get a lower mpg, which means you burn more of it to get somewhere witch puts more emissions out of our cars especially since we pull the catalytic converters out
and causes farmers in other countries to slash and burn more jungle to create fields to grow more corn because the price is so high.
Well, it's not been proven to do anything harmful to your car. But yes on the second two. Significantly more torque, a bit more HP up top.
also, for e85... would you think you'd need to run an external wastegate? or do you think it'd be ok on my internal li'l bleeder?
because the costs are to high for cellulosic ethanol right now, but with the research thats getting put in, its guna drop and take the heat off corn ethanol and people blame ethanol on the costs of corn, what do u think is used up for fertilizer and what do the tractors that work the fields use, and the trunks the move the corn run on..... yea thats petroleum, and look where those prices have been going... im not saying thats the only reason, but im sure its not helping. so i just spent all day yesterday working on a paper about e85, its hard subject follow because its like shifting through the crap info on huge car forums....
Make a 92/93 tune and a 110 tune, thats my plans or even a thrid tune with a little 110 mixed in ... can we do that Nate?
In the cars, yes. The production side is actually worse than petro is, and doesn't really balance out to be "green". :ugh:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341 this guy ran e85 on a 16g in his wrx w/810cc injectors for quite some time!
you sir are retarded. i could go on all about this particular subject but its easier for me to just say "No, you are wrong. You fail at life, now STFU" i bet you honestly believe the Prius is great for the environment too eh?
Not so sure I agree, given that most if not all in the us is made from corn, which is NOT an environmentally freindly crop, as it requires lots of fertilizer to grow, therefore produces lots of run-off, which is not good for the environment in any way.
Yeah i was agreeing with you... Not sure if you didn't catch that. Or if I'm just confused by your response again. But yeah anyway for a daily driver and reliability it would probably be better to stay away from it.
? It is true that corn is not the only source and they are stepping away from its use for a much easier source, like grass. The main benefit for ethonal is the ability to shove more energy potential into the engine per time frame. Ethonal may have a lower energy per unit volume, but the air/fuel ratio is lower which gives you a good bit more fuel through the engine and overall more energy. It's not massive though, something like 7%. However, octane is higher, so there's some aid for tuned engines. Apparently engine timing doesn't change that much(gov. studies) at only a couple degrees difference. I assume the increase in raw fuel helps with cooling too. Power gains are decent enough, turbo or NA. However, like others have mentioned, it's not a highly regulated product yet. It does lack consistancy, and most pumps will only claim E-85 contains at least 70% ethonal or something greater. That's not exactly helpful. I'd like to play with E-85 at some point in my NA, but it's not an exact product and not available everywhere yet. Minnesota is the front runner with a good majority of stations providing E-85. You drive a couple states away and the available pumps start to get pretty sparse. http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/fuels/ethanol_locations.html
No I know you were agreeing with me. Sorry was just trying to further explain what Tom was telling me.
Here's how I understand it: Since the A/F ratio is much lower with ethanol, you have to put a lot more fuel through the system to achieve stoichiometric burn. It's about 50% more fuel by mass. Ethanol's slightly more dense than gas and I think it's less viscous so the fuel injector scaling numbers changed by 28%. All those extra molecules flowing in and out of the cylinder have several effects. One is carrying away heat faster which keeps your EGT's down and helps resist detonation. This allows you to run more timing, run leaner, run more boost, etc. It also means the volume of exhaust gas is increased which should help your turbo spool better. Speaking about power, the benefit for turbo cars appears to be much greater than for N/A vehicles. There's lots of articles about this stuff on the web. http://www.eco-flex.us/pdfs/E85.pdf It's pretty confusing stuff. The max torque AFR for E85 appears to be much lower (richer) than for gas. I ran my car at much leaner mixtures at WOT than I did on gas because I didn't need all the extra fuel to keep the valves cool and safe. All this said, I think current ethanol production is an environmental nightmare and is only being done to appease the farm lobby. Your car pollutes less of course but it takes a huge amount of energy to ferment corn into ethanol which all comes from burning natural gas or electricity produce mostly by coal plants. Ride your damn bike if you want to save the earth.
i thought about that before i decided to go e85... but i wayed the costs, they both have about the same starup cost (meth setup compared to injectors and fuel pump for e85) they both need to be tuned for it they both do about the same thing for you(as far as i know) but in the long run... you are paying more for meth, because you have to fill up your tank a lot, plus put premium gas in your car, compared to just filling up with e85 for a daily driven car i suppose meth might work out better becaues of the low amount of stations that carry e85. i chose to go with e85 because i believe in the long run it will be cheaper and i dont daily drive my car. you guys should work on getting e85 at your station.
Actually, it can be made from any plant. Its called cellulosic ethanol. Harder and more expensive to make, but its plenty doable. There's plants in ND that make it.
But when you realize a bike doesn't break 40 mpg and comes without cats (meow), they emit something like 20x the CO2 and NOX per mile of a car. My liberal cousin traded in his bike when I pointed that out. :roll:
