Just to clear things up because some people on here are trying to get me pissed off with this. So I'm going to put it all out in the open. The failure of my block was caused by the wrong spring clips being shipped to me with my piston kit. Yes, Matt, you were right, Wiseco sucks. It was not any error on our part, we used the wrist pin retainer clips that were provided with the kit. Those clips were the wrong shape for the wrist pin. I'll get the specifics as to why those two shapes can't co-exist in the piston from Guy and post it here later. But this was not a failure caused by anything we did. The clips LOOKED like OEM subaru clips, but the FACT is the clips were provided with the kit from Wiseco. Now we are going to have a lesson in logic. If I buy a piston kit for 440 dollars and it comes with pistons, a piston ring set, a wrist pin, and wrist pin clips....why would I go and buy a set of OEM wrist pin clips to use in place of the wrist pin clips that Wiseco provided. I know, never assume anything right? But I would assume that Wiseco would provide me with the correct spring clips for the pistons. I would assume that all the parts in the 440 dollar kit were meant to be used with eachother and that there is no need for me to go and spend more money on parts that are already included in the kit. I did not buy OEM clips for the pistons, and there were no clips just lying around my house that I could have mistaken for the ones that came in the kit. I have nothing to hide here. The fact is, I used the spring clips that came with my Wiseco piston kit, and the other fact is that those clips were not the correct clips to be used with the wrist pin that was supplied. This is an error that Wiseco made not me. Had the clips that were supplied been of the correct shape, none of this would have happened. If you have any other questions, feel free to post them here and I will answer them to the best of my ability. And I will also get Guy's exact words on here so that you can have the machinist's word for it too. I'll call him today.
And if any of the naysayers wish, I can take you over to MTKA and pull my purchasing records from their computer. You can have a look at everything I've ever purchased or ordered from MTKA subaru parts, which is where I buy ALL my parts from. There wont be a line item for spring clips in there. Anywhere. Sorry for getting so fired up, but there are a certain few here that want so badly for this to be my fault it seems, that I feel compelled to defend myself.
We are going to try to, but it will be an uphill battle as they will likely say that "I" used teh wrong wrist pin spring clips for the job. They will likely no own up to sending the wrong ones. Even though, logicly, there is no reason why I wouldn't use the clips they provided. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know as much about Wiseco pistons and Wiseco does about their own pistons. I assume they know what parts are best for their pistons, why should I go out and buy different parts than what they decided to use? They obviously intended those clips for those pistons, who am I to say they are wrong and go out and buy my own?
I'll see if Guy can pull a set of clips out of another Wiseco kit and take a picture along side the ones that were in my kit. I'm going to give him a call at around 11am Exactly. I can't prove that the wrist pin clips that I used are the ones they sent...even though as I explained before, there was no reason for me to use anything other than what they sent and intended for the kit.
so are the a different shape or thickness? how does a spring clip get pushed out no matter what shap it is? im just thinking about this and how you put those in and dont understand how when you have to compress a clip to get it in its spot, the motor can then compress that clip and then push it out by its self?
Something to do with the tangs on the spring clip itself and the shape of the ends on the wrist pin. I really don't want to relay info and be wrong, so I'll wait till I talk to Guy again. But I will go ahead and relay what I think I remember hearing (I was really busy when he called so I didn't catch everything) Basicly, the ends of the wrist pins are beveled, and thusly the spring clip tangs need to be recessed to accomodate this, the bevel in teh wrist pin allows the pin to protrude beyond the circular portion of the spring clip and hit the tangs. When the wrist pin applies pressure to the tangs, it has the opportunity to compress those tangs and thusly push the spring clip out. The proper clip would not have had tangs at all. Don't ask me how that works, as I don't know how you'd get the spring clip in there without having something to grab onto with pliers. Again, I want to get the straight story from Guy on this one. So don't take any of this as pure knowledge. I'll try to get some pics of pins, and do up a diagram as to why they were wrong.
Wow. It's nice that a few $0.50 pieces of springy metal can trash a $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ build. f wiesco in the bum
that sucks, f them in the bum for sure, is it possible to get anything like $$$$ for weiseco's mistake
that seriously sucks man, sorry to hear, hopefully wiesco will step up and claim their mistake like they should
Thats the least they could do..... seriously they should man up and pay for their mistake. It's not like they are a small company that can't afford to make things right for you.
Maybe I should be worried? How common is this? There have been two of the same bottom ends running around for 10k+. Could it happen at anytime?
Well Jason had the wrong style of clips. Wait till Jason posts a pic of the clips and compare to what you have.
That sux man. Worst case if they dont want to warranty at least a new set of pistons with the correct clips, just keep talking to peoples supervisors until you get the CEO. You can be sure he wont want his companys name drug through the dirt on a large forum like this just so he can save a few hundred dollars. It works wonders trust me
I don't think Wiseco is going to care about some Subaru forum in Minnesota....but Nasioc on the otherhand...
I just used what they gave me. As far as remembering a minute detail like that, especially when I wasn't even looking for it at the time, its a lost cause at this point. I've done three oil changes and am at about 10k since January (yeah, I drive ALOT). No metal in the oil. The motor feels strong so far. Maybe I'm just lucky?
or maybe the ones they sent readymix were jsut the wrong ones, kind of a freak occurance at the packaging place. That's what I'd be hoping for
yeah perhaps it was just a mistake. some guy at wiseco threw in the wrong bag of clips for them mixs order. maybe pidster has the correct ones? seriously i never would have thought this to be an issue. I would have been in the exact same boat as jason. i would assume that if they send you wrist clips for your subaru specific pistons, that the clips would be the correct ones. lesson learned i guess.
i figured you were getting what was coming to you because you didnt spend $3000 for someone to build it for you (sarcasim)
well the person that did build it has built alot of subaru engines, in stock form, but subaru engines nontheless. i would have done the same thing.
I am not saying you knew you were making a mistake. And I am not saying you didn't get the wrong clips from weisco. All I am saying from what I have found out about this whole deal is that someone with more aftermarket engine experience would have figured out the clips were wrong for the piston aplication.
its not like Jason was the first to use Wiseco pistons before. and if this was because of clips wouldn’t this be happening more often? i happen to believe there is a big difference in some one who builds custom motors with after market parts and one that builds stock ones. i also believe that you get what you pay for when it come to experience in building motors.
I am not saying that I would have not made the same mistake. But hey. I don't build high performance engines. Nor do I claim to.
There is a good chance that weisco put the wrong piston clips in the box. Hey that could happen to anyone. I agree 100 percent
only way to know the difference is to put them SIDE by SIDE. You can never really tell a difference when you just look at them. People look at my frineds '93 Impreza wagon and my '99 wagon to be the same. When you put them NEXT to each other, that's when you can see the differences. I put in some Wiseco pistons into a EJ251 and it came w/ the c-clips. They look the SAME if you just look at them. I didn't get to compare them w/ the STOCK ones, but I did put the c-clips that came w/ the pistons on. Now this isn't a custom build or anything wild, just some lower compression pistons. His is fine, but that's because we didn't mess w/ any tolerances or anything like that. His runs fine.
I spoke with Guy this morning. This was Wiseco's fault. The spring clips have tangs on them, they have to because of the Subaru engine design. But the wrist pins were not beveled to accomodate those tangs. I've also spoken with someone that has some connections at Wiseco, and we will get everyone involved.
