Gauging Interest: Moving Forward......

Discussion in 'General Subaru Discussion' started by tangledupinblu, Mar 19, 2007.

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  1. 1meanrex
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    1meanrex Well-Known Member

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    this thread was a very interesting read. I'm a pretty new member but I'd like to say a few things. first off charging $50 bucks a year on this site will be pretty damn hard. From a business point of view this club/forum is still pretty small and it will probably stay that way because of our core audience, hence MNSUBARU. I believe that if we do start charging its going to hurt our membership numbers, which will cause even a bigger issue, and this thing about 900 members, we forget that that is just a number, go to the top menu buttons and hit members and see how many have had recent posts. Its suprising.
     
  2. 1fastwagon
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    1fastwagon New Member

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    I apologize for the last post...shouldn't be posting at 3:30 in the morning. Mind wasn't working quite right.

    I feel as though there is a forum and there is a club that is MNSubaru. I, to date, have mostly felt that I am part of the forum...not so much the club. And that is mostly my doing, seeing as I don't have the time to make it to many of the events, or the events don't peak my interest.

    Now, why will I pay a membership fee to Northstar BMW club to run in some of their track events...because I have fun doing it and they have some pretty well run events. I don't question the membership fee, and certainly am not going to reep many benifits from it outside of a few track events each year.

    If there were MNSubaru sponsored track events (autox or other) I'd be all over it. BBQ's or gatherings where more than just the usual suspects showed up, that would be fun too. But, in the current state what would I be paying for (I'm more than happy to donate to cover maint fees or any other fees to keep the site running, it's the $50 that I'm questioning). It comes down to the fact that I'd pay when it felt like a club, and not just a forum, to me.

    Now, without this and other sites like it, I'd be pretty damn bored at work on those days were time is creeping along. Am I entertained by the site, yes. Am I educated by the site, yes. Are there some good people on the site, yes. Are there some sweet rides that peak interest and act as inspiration, yes. Does that mean I feel like I'm part of the club, no.
     
  3. Chux
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    Chux Well-Known Member

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    I apologize, my question was not, at all, directed at you, because I know you only used the wording from the original post.....

    my question was directed at everyone, ESPECIALLY the tangleupinblu, since he brought it up.

    I can think of zero things that could be done with a membership fee that can't be done otherwise (potluck, everyone brings something, zero cost to the club: going to other clubs' hosted track events: etc.). if we all give what we can, whether it be a garage for a small install day, Nathan giving up his shop for a large install day, maybe Justin hosting something at GrimmSpeed, or just bringing hotdogs and a set of tools, we all contribute.


    heck we could even do like the North Shore Wheelers do, and have a club within the club. a somewhat exclusive club, with bylaws, and a copyright on the logo, that would entitle you to come to some other events and a few other things. but no membership fee is required (except the annual MN4WDA fee of $21, but that goes straight to the association and not the club), if the club needs money for something, we all pitch in (for example, we need to take out a one day insurance policy for an event this spring, and the $200 cost divided by the ~20 members means less than $10 a person....)
     
  4. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    It was just a thought Matt. There have been a few conversations between myself and other members about the issue and most seemed to be interested. I'm just a little more aware of the lack of funds from my current involvement with this summer cruise thing. If everyone thinks that its a bad idea, then cool, no problems from me with that. Just thought that it was a good "topic" for discussion between ALL the members, instead of just me and a few others...sorry if I've offended anybody with this thread.

    Keep the opinions coming!!:biggrin:

    Btw....it's Josh.
     
  5. Chux
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    Chux Well-Known Member

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    I realize it was just a thought. but I still don't know what brought the thought about...if the summer cruise needs some money, charge a registration fee, or ask people who want to see it happen to donate. heck, host a car wash somewhere. If I'm available to come, I'd be happy to put some money towards making it happen.

    I'd support the club if there was something worth supporting. but like I've said, I can't imagine something that this club could offer via membership fees, that is not already available. The only hint of an exception would be a club-wide insurance policy that would make hosting events (track days, AutoXs, RallyXs and the like) possible, but there are other clubs already covering that....so we could just make an effort to show up as a group to these events. If 5-8 of us show up, park together, maybe make a banner, wear the T-shirts, etc.

    the other problem, is most of the events that a club membership would allow, would not be available to all the members, due to scheduling and location, not everyone can go all the time. that's one of the reasons I support registration fees for the participants of each individual event, should the need arise.



    I think 'moving forward' (which, btw, I'm 100% in favor of), should just entail regular meetings, elected officials, and a group effort to attend already existing events around the state. none of which would require a membership fee.
     
  6. TSTRBOY2004
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    TSTRBOY2004 Well-Known Member

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    BLAH BLAH BLAH....
     
  7. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Chux, I like the idea of getting groups together to attend events that are already taken care of by other clubs. Banners are a great idea and they are also something that I'm trying to push for for the summer cruise! I guess that the "moving forward" could address the issue of other people volunteering to put things together. Btw...the Ice races were FTW. I'm just excited about a more active future with MNSubaru.
     
  8. Justin
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    Justin Well-Known Member

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    you'll like the duluth trip to man. someone should find that pic of my bathtub in hotel.

    as chux stated...i'd definitely be game for hosting something in the near future at the shop. be it eating, drinking, chilling, doing a couple installs, or anything else.

    tangled...if you get banners we can put one up in the shop too.
     
  9. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    I'll keep you updated!;)
     
  10. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    bump this for some good ideas. moving forward...
     
  11. Wakaba
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    Wakaba BANNED

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    admittedly I didn't read this whole thread, furthermore I am new and never attended an event. But being that this is a free forum, I will throw my $.02 into the mix. It's the internet after all, where else can a windbag like me have people actually listen.... or parented to listen. (I am still 5yrs too young for the presidency)

    Between '98 and '00 I was an active member of BANeon (Bay Area Neon) The website hosting fees were covered by a donation system only. We had monthly events, which I think isn't too far of a stretch for this crowd. Every other month would be a group run to some place. Be it a scenic drive through the mountains, or lunch at one of the members' restaurant. These events could be put on by any member, and when there were two members wanting to do the same month both ideas were merged, or one stepped back till the next month.

    The off months, and those with nothing really planned, there was what we called a "Tech-n-Tune" which was some member hosting, at his home or shop, a BBQ/Potluck and movie day to bring the group together (and OH do I KNOW you MN folks love your BBQ/Potlucks!). This would be a time for those members that don't have much in the way of mechanical ability to get some free help. I think there has been 2 or 3 postings since I got here of people looking for somewhere to get springs installed. These TnT days would be a time where those members could bring their car and the springs, and someone would walk them through the process. This would help the newbie learn how to do it himself, and save a bit of money. Oil changes, brake pad changes, all the way to construction of solid motor mounts went on at these meets. Sometimes going into the wee hours of the morning. The unseen benefit of these events was the comradery, team building, and friendships. I still communicate with the guys that I helped change their springs and brake pads, and it's been over 8 years. One really cool event I attended with NWNeon,was a scavenger hunt. Member donations, and time went into the trophies for the event (three neon hubcaps spray painted Gold, Silver, and Bronze with vinyl decals saying "NWNeon Scavenger Hunt 1/2/3rd Place) which I have the bronze :biggrin:

    Events such as track days, catered events, camping trips, and anything that requires some sort of logistical support, deposits, and a possibility of members being financially burned DID require a fee up front, but this was pay as you go.

    I think this would be the best method for the "club." It would encourage open membership while keeping the attendance requirement to a minimum. Everyone wants to be a member of something, epically younger folks with a neat new car. A free group of like minded people will draw them in for help, guidance, and mentorship. Through this mentorship we can groom the next generation of members to be decent car enthusiasts rather than the streetracing thugs that bring a bad light on us all.

    I for one will not pay to be in a club, in the formal sense. I would prefer to meet up with some fellow car nuts at someone's house or shop and help some newbie learn how to work on his car. (damn I DID learn something from the army:hsugh:)
     
  12. Jackstand
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    Jackstand Well-Known Member

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    is this in the right thread?
     
  13. 02blubru
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    02blubru Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is
     
  14. Soupboy
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    Soupboy Well-Known Member

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    What he said.

     
  15. wrxpeed
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    wrxpeed CobraPeed

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    I for one am not a fan of the idea of a paid membership. I already am a member of another local forum that does charge an annual membership fee (SVTOATC) of $40/year. I paid it last year and went to one event which was basically a meet at Porkey's. Frankly I'm not going to pay it again to go to porkey's 1 time and cruise. If they don't want me to show up to a public place with my car, they can get bent and go to private property by themselves.

    As for being able to legitimately organize a site with money by electing CFO, treasurer, etc is just going to be a poplularity contest which would just split the site further. I see a lot of backlash and politics at SVTOATC between certain members who don't agree with the treasurer etc and it just causes more drama.

    That club hasn't "moved Forward" at all in any respect. Its simply lost members and is now a very small cliche that isn't universally liked by some of the popular posters. its like a little heirarchy.
     
  16. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    Charge what you need to to keep the site running well. Make everything else ala carte or have a separate membership that includes activities. This is the beauty of the free market, people will come, people will go. As an outsider lookin in this thing appears to have been thought through and discussed to death. Pull the trigger, see what happens.
     
  17. wrxpeed
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    wrxpeed CobraPeed

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    well I think the big concern mods has is if they pull that trigger, will the bullet hit the gunman. basically, if they do decide to charge, who's to say it won't kill the site entirely. That's what I gather they are trying to figure out at this time, if pulling the trigger would be for the good or bad.
     
  18. AWDimprezaL
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    AWDimprezaL has more posts than you

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    If you want the discount you are gonna have to pay. whats the membership $20?

    i quoted a bunch of stuff for a member here today that had his car in for service, if he goes through with buying the items his car needs i'll have saved him over $105, it pays for itself
     
  19. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Membership will be 10 bucks. And pretty much any part over 50 bucks will end up paying you back for the membership fee. If you buy a part and attend a sanctioned meet, you have most definately paid yourself back for the card.
     
  20. prezawagon
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    prezawagon Well-Known Member

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    Also, membership will not be required to be on the forums or attend events. Membership gets you extra perks like the parts discount and the ability to vote in club matters (ex, electing officers), and hopefully we can add more perks in the future. The money from the membership will help keep the club funded for hosting and provide some money to pay for things like deposits for larger events.
     
  21. EtchyLives
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    EtchyLives Well-Known Member

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    I've saved WAY more than $10 (more than $50, too) with the club discount. If any of you seriously wrench on your car or even want to do minor mods like a Tribeca Front Sway bar or buy some honest-to-God Subaru bolts and nuts the membership pays for itself quickly.

    I'm all for being a member. Especially for a nominal fee of $10. That's one set of spark plugs.
     
  22. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Exactly, most of you probably have membership dues in your pocket right now. 10 bucks saves you tons down the line. And it allows you the perks of organized events. And even if you don't go to events, like Etchy said, you can buy some pretty cheap parts. Hell, oil filters, crush washers and spark plugs will likely net you enough in one year to pay you back for that card.
     
  23. Chin
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    Chin Well-Known Member

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    ...so I will go to another dealer that currently offers discounts. If a dealer really wants to tell people that they only get a discount by being a paid member of a club (of which they see no $$), that is their perogative. However, there is more than one dealer offering discounts. I will choose to go to the one that doesn't discriminate.

    Being nobody is threatening to make the forum private, do what you want... ;)
     
  24. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    $10...well worth it IMO. Bring it on.
     
  25. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a big point. You don't have to be a member to attend events, it just may get you a discount on the cost for the event as we go forward.
     
  26. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Honestly, I think $10 is too cheap. But it will be better than nothing!

    Wakaba is newb:biggrin:. Thanks for the input Wakaba! This is currently how the "club" works(pay to play). My problem with this is when I host a larger venue event, there is no money to put towards the event. I felt bad charging people last year at the LaXCruise $11/person for brats/burgers but what can you do? The cost included everything we needed to pay for...but I wanted more, and so did those that attended the event!

    To add more I would have to charge more. I guess that people might not mind paying $20 or $25/event instead of $11. I think that the additional money from the cards will allow us to have more options.


    Also, with events come reserving caterers/shelters/service & entertainment providers. These services require deposits. Am I suppose to start a thread to have people send money for the deposits. And then have a "pay thread" where they pay for the event? Have the members that plan/want to attend the event to send money 3-4 months before the event to cover these things?

    Essentially, the membership fee would help cover different things involved with said events. It will also help provide the club with event banners, magnets/stickers, and other swag to all that participate.

    I am completely for all of those that don't want to pay to be here. But for those that want more out of events and possibly more events in general, this will help out alot!
     
  27. Hallywood
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    Hallywood Well-Known Member

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    I will buy a membership card for $10.00 if it comes with said perks. I won't pay a dime to post on this site though.

    and Josh, I think you should have charged $20/person last year for the LaX cruise. I thought $11.00 was pretty cheap.

    edit:

    A "Donations" link is always a good option..
     
  28. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Just an fyi, it will be more this year.:) Thanks for the info Josh.


    And it will still be a free forum. No charge to post. Although, post whoring would go down if we charged/post!:laugh:
     
  29. prezawagon
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    prezawagon Well-Known Member

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    Right, it'll be up to each vendor whether they will require a card to get a discount or not. This is not something that we are forcing on the dealers, etc.

    I think there is some risk though that as word of the "club discount" at minnetonka gets around it could get abused if there's no way to check if people are members or not. If it gets abused then it might go away for all of us.
     
  30. wrxpeed
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    wrxpeed CobraPeed

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    One thing you guys need to think about is this whole "pay Mnsubaru to get a discount at a car dealer" bit. I'm sure therell be conflict with the fact that the group is getting revenue from its members by a 3rd party offerring discounts to said group.

    The dealerships are giving a discount to a group out of the kindness of their hearts to support the local scene and the group wants to profit from their generosity. Who's to say the group gets to decide who gets and doesn't get a discount the dealer is offering out of the kindness of their hearts to an avid Subaru owner. I find it morally and ethically wrong. The dealer will need to be contacted and 2 things would come out of it; either they'll want in on the profit sharing negating mnsubaru's gain, or all together revoke their participation.

    ~Bryan
     
  31. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    MNSubaru the club is not a for profit organization. There is no profit, so there is no way to "share" the profit.
     
  32. tux121
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    tux121 Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind this idea. Sounds good to me. Although the $50 part kind of startled me:)
     
  33. TSTRBOY2004
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    TSTRBOY2004 Well-Known Member

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    we get it you dont want to pay to be a part of this club, you dont want to help contribute to the cost of the club.. we get it we get it
     
  34. prezawagon
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    prezawagon Well-Known Member

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    Your concern is valid, but it's based on a false assumption. We are not forcing anyone to require the cards for the discount.

    As far as I know the minnetonka parts department is aware of the plan for the cards. Again, we're not forcing them to require the cards. They (and any vendor) can still choose to give a discount to whoever they want.

    The real point of the paid membership is for the voting priviledge.

    I got the impression that minnetonka wanted to require the cards because they wanted to keep the discount for mnsubaru members, and not just anyone walking in claiming to be a member.
     
  35. bikerwriter
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    bikerwriter Well-Known Member

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    I'm like, a full fledged member of the Hollis Crew

    :laugh:
     
  36. 99Lashes RS
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    99Lashes RS Well-Known Member

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    Clearly, $50 is a little steep (that has already been established) but do you think perhaps if one had to pay $20/year - or something close to that - it would keep the dedicated members in and the not so serious ones out? It's obvious most of us get along already as we share a common interest. By making it an official "club" we could have "club benefits" such as the MNSubaru discount at our local friendly Minnetonka Subaru dealer, perhaps discount T-shirts, more frequent, well organized events at a lesser price, etc. I don't think it would be fair to completely nix the YEARLY fee (which, at $20/year turns out to be around .30 cents a day...) it could be beneficial and I wouldn't blame Morrie's Minnetonka if they wanted us to show a MNSubaru club card when purchasing items at discounted price. Just by reading our threads, anyone could come onto this site and know that if they go to that dealer, they can get a discount and never post a word.

    Just my .02 cents...or .30 cents ;)
     
  37. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Might want to check your math there. It is a little more than a nickel a day.
     
  38. AWDimprezaL
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    AWDimprezaL has more posts than you

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    basicly, it happens alot too
     
  39. Wakaba
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    Wakaba BANNED

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    And for just more than a nickel a day you could sponsor this child.

    [​IMG]
     
  40. 99Lashes RS
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    99Lashes RS Well-Known Member

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    Oops. Well, that just proves my point even more - it's not a whole heckofalot;)
     
  41. wrxpeed
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    wrxpeed CobraPeed

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    Ok, so profit was a bad term. But its still receiving funds from charging members to use the discount.

    Your post still doesn't give valid rebuttal and is quite childish. Do any of my postings anywhere show that I don't want to be apart of the club? I've been a member here longer than most (including you) and have never had a problem with the group, even through the schism a year or so ago I've been a loyal member. Where do you get off posting that?

    Its seems as more and more mods post in this thread the less people are willing to challenge with valid counter-arguments. If you look at this thread there wasn't a single person willing to pay until mods came in and argued back, and now it seems I'm the only dissenter.

    I'm simply trying to play devil's advocate before a decision is made that could change the group, possibly for the worse.

    Ok, so these are both valid rebuttals and I take them to heart.

    I never said anywhere in this thread or others that I wouldn't be willing to pay. I simply said I'm not a fan of it from having experienced it from other forums and seeing what it has done to the environment there.
     
  42. TSTRBOY2004
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    TSTRBOY2004 Well-Known Member

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    I was just giving you crap...



    either way... me personally have NO problem paying for something... especially when its something I am on or using a lot.. why not.. maybe the site needs a donation button which has been suggested again and again... then those who may not want the cards can still be allowed to have access to whatever areas may become un-available to non-paying/donating members?? or not!!!

    either way all these people bitch about $10-$20 to help a site that they get a lot of help from but you mention having a piss up party and those same people have no problem finding the $$$$ to piss against the wall...
     
  43. retreif
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    retreif Well-Known Member

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    Fees

    I sent in $20.91 in the other day. I could careless about a card or voting. I just like the site. But I'm not a staving student either.


    Oh, it was all I had in my paypal account at the time.
     
  44. sneefy
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    sneefy Well-Known Member

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    Requiring fees to be paid for site use and 'perks' is not a good idea. Truly no offense, Josh. I understand where you're coming from.

    Actively soliciting free-will donations is an excellent idea. I would willingly donate a few bucks to keep things running. I'm gone if the fee is required. For those of you who say it's the same either way because you still pay, sorry, but you're wrong.

    Also, vendors/dealers/etc. are not giving the discount simply out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it for referrals, and end up making more profit because word gets around that they, in effect, support the site through discounts. The site is a great way for word to spread that they are offering a discount. So, more people end up going there. This, in turn, equals more profit. Win for them, win for us. It is a nice thing for them to do, absolutely. But, they end up making more profit, not less.

    The term 'active member' needs to be clearly defined, I think.

    If it does happen, and MNSubaru institutes a pay-for-use policy, I think more needs to be done with the fees. Not just fun events and good times. Site maintenance is obvious, and fun is fun, but if a pool of cash comes in, we really become a club. An organization. And if we are required to pay for the privilege, something philanthropic should happen as well. I think people would pay up more willingly that way. As a club, give something, donate something. Time and/or money to a worthy cause. (pessimistically, coming to a consensus on which one would be nigh impossible though.)

    Once again, no offense, but I don't think it's a good idea. Accept and solicit free-will donations. Don't require fees.

    My proverbial $.02
     
  45. 02blubru
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    02blubru Well-Known Member

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    when I first joined there was a link on the home page to donate to the cost of the site. what happened to that?
     
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