Discussion in 'General Subaru Discussion' started by Justin, Feb 4, 2008.
This Tim, is a GREAT idea!
now we just need to find a good spot...... with twisties? lol
maybe some sweet shirts with the road name and such?
i would be game to help clean a road fo sho, also, if you guys need help with the cards i can help out when and however i can
I am a sophisticated Love robot sent back to please one woman... and practice on many... ha ha
Phenomenal idea from Tim.. you have earnt 1 respect point back from me
I certainly will donate my time, and have been talking with the NSW guys about what all they did to incorporate the club, get a Tax ID, and open a checking account....
and the treasurer just sent me this link:
IMHO, if you guys are so determined to make the club a legal entity, look into just a non-profit incorporation. Much easier, and will allow for everything this club could use for many years to come (until we start talking large insurance policies for major events....but that's all quite a ways out), and won't require the time or money investment.
I don't think that we're structured enough to become a NPO at this point in time. Look at us, we can't even agree on simple things such as "which idea is the best one to start with."
It would be cheaper to do the LLC thing first, establish ourselves as a "club" and then when we have more members that are actively persuing the club's interests, look toward making it into an NPO.
I really like the "adopt a highway" thing mentioned above, that is a good way to get our name out there. Not to mention that as soon as you go NPO, you're going to need a lot more than just a bunch of mods on a forum, a secretary, treasurer, (just to name a few mentioned above) ... You'll need people to promote publicity, marketing, people to answer questions about your purpose, a full office staff ... all of these things need to be in place first before making a giant step like that.
It's a good idea, I'm not going to lie, but we need more organization and to have everything structured for a couple of years before moving on to something like that. Then, once the time comes for it, the club should have more than enough money, and it will already have paid for itself.
Again, I'm not trying to make enemies, I'm just looking at it from a logical, business standpoint. This place just isn't big enough yet, and we'd lose more money now than we'd gain with tax breaks. And another thing, each "business" .. whether LLC or NPO has to have a stated purpose. If you don't adhere to that purpose, and if you're spending the club's money and it turns out that you're not spending it ALL on your "goals" as a company, then when it comes time for audit, everyone is in trouble, as each penny must go back into the club. (thanks for reminding me of NPO audits and scrutiny of such, etchy!)
What is MNSubaru's stated purpose? What are we, as a business unit, seeking to do here?
we could always model after mnscc - i believe they are a NPO :ugh:
definitely, but they have one thing we dont, income to pay for it. i whole heartedly agree that at somepoint we should be an NPO, but to even get to that day we will need to be an LLC first. We can definitely put it on the plan for a year or two out(or whatver the leadership committee suggests, 1-2 years is just my personal educated guess at when the money could be there). I believe Russ stated it was going to be $2,000+ to form the non-profit organization. What we should do is set a goal to have this money available in 1-2 years to get this accomplished.
Does this sound like a logical plan to you guys?
Who came up with the idea of paying a lawyer two thousand dollars to prepare paperwork to form an LLC?
It isnt for a standard LLC, its for the NPO. When setting up an NPO it is strongly advised to have a lawyer set it up because there are many parts to it. Think of it this way, the government is basically waving your tax liablility because you are saying you do not keep a profit, they are obviously going to keep close close tabs on you to make sure you arent screwing the system. They also make it more difficult to become one.
I haven't been keeping up with this thread (I've been down in the garage all night doing woodworking, very relaxing), but just looking back a few posts, I think Aegis has a good point.
I think we should define what positions we are going to have, Pres, Vice-pres, treasurer, etc, Then define their roles and responsibilities. We also need some bylaws to deal with elections, meetings, money issues, etc. I think we should look at these things beyond just the minimum requirements for LLC or NPO and look at what our goals really are.
I know one of the first month goals on the first page is a checking account, but I'd really like to see a treasurer and more rules about the accounting/auditing before we start getting an account for example.
But, to be honest, I don't have experience in setting up a business, these are just a few thoughts looking at it as a club. Maybe if the application material for the LLC or NPO is made public then some of my questions will already be answered in there.
Well, you have several cheaper options to set up an NPO:
1) Contact the state bar association or the Ramsey County chapter. Lawyers are generally required to do pro-bono work, and an NPO qualifies.
2) Contact the two law schools. Law students get all sorts of credit for projects like that. And they will be under the direction of faculty.
3) Go to either law school and go to the law library. There is a handbook that tells attorneys how to set up organizations (including NPOs) and includes forms.
But I digress...
I was working on a post about the checking account as well. in short... i 100% agree that this item should be moved to a time slot after the elections. So no checking account should be created until we have an elected Treasurer set up and then he/she can set it all up.
I've setup about 5 companies in my day so i've done some research(not saying i'm a pro or anything, just saying). Basically its not just the upfront costs of setting up an NPO, its the recurring costs each year for it. One of our members wife does tax stuff and it sounds like there may be yearly audits on an NPO and that the audits are time consuming...and time consuming means more time paying a tax accountant/lawyer to help with the audit. Maybe in a few years we will have money to throw at that but right now i just dont see it. We need to be as efficient as possible right now with setting up the entity and the LLC costs 160 to set up plus some members time to make some bylaws...definitely the most cost effective way to get the show on the road.
I've kept most of my personal opinions quiet so far for the ideas and what not, but this one is most important on my radar because it needs to get taken care in a timely fashion because it starts the whole process.
Tim had a great idea with the road clean up. Would be a fun thing to do (on a nice day), and we would be giving back to the community. (club image +1)
I think Bikerwriter has something by going with student lawyers. does anyone know a law student?
As for justin's comment on teh post whore issue. I would like to say that this is not true (not anymore atleast). these past few weeks i have spent more time under my car than on the boards.
i hope you and i are close enough to know that that was a joke and i'm just jealous of your post count...right?
Tim's idea definitely kicks butt. OP will be updated as follows:
Volunteer to Adopt-a-Highway to help the community. Have get together after volunteer work. - EJ22Tim
Yeah I know you were joking. You should be poking fun at 3rik he leap frogged me by a mile (he has over 600 more posts than me, and he just passed me like a month ago).
back on track now.
I didn't say non-profit organization, I said non-profit incorporation, VERY different things. it's not limited liability, so we wouldn't be fully protected, but the cost is pretty minimal (less than 100, IIRC), and will allow us to get a Tax ID, and then open a Checking account in the club's name. only thing we really need, is a board of directors/officers.
I'll be the retard that will explain to Wizkonsiners what STI stands for!1!
No, none. Especially none who haven't prosecuted club members. (WUT?)
FWIW, the UMN tends to focus on "hard luck" type stuff. A car club just isn't one of those. I'd imagine for most attorney's Pro Bono work is the same. Yes, they have to do it, but they want something they can talk about.
Oh and i don't know of any "incorperation" clinics. They're mainly consumer protection, criminal, housing, family, etc, stuff thats really about an individual (or just a few people).
Finally, I'm not certain you're incorperating for the right reasons. I'd see the main advantage is not having leaders/members sued if something goes wrong at an event. Yes, it has other advantages too, but this strikes me as the most important one. Though i'll assume you've spoken to an attorney regarding both the advantages and disadvantages of all this. If not, you really want to.
/I don't know **** about this stuff anyhow, havn't taken BA Corps.
//not legal advice
I agreee with ya, and that is the reason that Todd never finsihed the NPO that is almost done. Liek I have stated before, I saw that we hold elections, get that stuff takem care of and put the LLC/NPO on the back burner for a while. The only thing that we are ultimately going to gain by doing that is a checking account. That is a non-issue anyways. I think what we really need is to get the structure down on elections and bylaws and get our **** striaght before we even spen the money and time for the LLC/NPO. Most of that stuff needs to be done before we can do the LLC anyways. If we can get the memeber cards done (which are being worked on), that will generate some cash coming in and we can use that cash to cover the cards and what is needed to continue with the LLC/NPO things. We still can elect the personal needed to get this stuff rolling without having to rush through the LLC process.
As for cost, with just my internet surfing of MN NPO LLC, MN requires a bunch of things that some states do not. That is where some of the cost comes from. Also, some of the filings are 3-400, plus name searchs, lawyers, and the random other things.
I'll help, just let me know where you need another person!
so has there been anymore talk as of recent. i really did like the highway clean up idea, i think we should pursue it and go from there.
Doing a Toys for Tots cruise/drive would be a good idea too.
When/where is the upcoming meeting? Would it be open to all potential members?
just wanted to let you guys know that pksublime has been added the task force team.. he comes from a background of banking experiece so it will be great to have a expert in that field on the team who can give his advice.
This. People should be suggesting new names before anyone even thinks about putting anything down on paper.
nasioc, i-club, iwsti.... all very noticeably lacking anything specifically Subaru related. (yeah, STI, but I think the Center for Disease Control has more claim to that particular acronym anyway.)
Yes there are Corvette clubs, BMW clubs, but those all have some sort of national backing. (And I would assume at least tacit approval from the manufacturers.)
So what I'm hearing is that we should have someone contact Subaru to see if they would provide their endorsement? I for one wouldn't mind a stamp of approval:biggrin:
OK, I'm currently running the maze of department routing trying to get information on this. Last contact I had was leaving a message for the marketing department of SOA to ask about what would be involved in using the name "Subaru" in our club name. From what I've gathered in hearsay, Subaru might have an issue with using their name without permissions.
More news as it develops.
but thinking about it nasioc is
North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club
...and i-club = impreza-club.
iwsti was imprezawrxsti.com, Subaru legal contacted them and they changed it.
I am sure on any legal paperwork, it is just Nasioc.
i dont want to say to much as jason is going to post up the info today about this....i'll just say that i went through the hubub of trying to contact subaru but i had no response. imo subaru leaves people alone when 1. they are small local clubs and 2. the club isnt making big bank off of vendors memberships on the site(or making bank in general). the state also has a process that they go through to make sure any of the names coming in can be used to an extent. oh, and its exciting news!!!
So I don't have an LLC in MN, but I have started one in ND, I can personally vouch for the rediculous amount of time and money that goes into maintaining my endevour. I didn't read the whole thing, but one thing that did catch my eye: LLC's usually have to show profit in a certain number of years, otherwise they get slammed by taxation etc... just a thought.
I, of course, would be happy to help in anyway i can from this far away. If something needs to be done, please feel free to ask.
Well, the LLC stuff has been sent. The LLC was the cheaper route, and for the time being it will be more than ample for the sort of stuff the club does.
Justin got the paperwork portion of it done. He's done this sort of thing a few times in the past, and really I don't have much time for paperwork...so I donated the 170 to pay for the filing...you guys can get me back later. His name is on the paperwork for the time being, but myself and Justin both want his name off the LLC paperwork ASAP. SO, that means we need to get cracking on roles and responsibilities.
Just to set the record straight, neither of us wish to have ANY roles in the leadership or elected positions involved in this. Like it was said before, this is just to get the ball rolling forward so we can put it in the hands of those that can manage it. We will see it through till elected officials are in place, then all paperwork will be amended to show the new names.
Typically, an LLC has some sort of bank account for funds to be placed in and pulled from. We have not set this up as we want a treasurer in place before hand. Neither of us want the responsibility of handling the money.
So there you go. The stage is set. We obviously need to start brainstorming the roles and such, but the ball is now rolling.
Any questions, feel free to ask Justin as he knows most of the ins and outs of the LLC thing. Like I said, I don't have much free time to get too involved. Let's see some progress.
Here I thought we'd all pretty much agreed that an LLC was unnecessary. Glad to know people are working together on this
did anyone at least take steps to make sure we don't get sued for using "Subaru" in the name?!
Yes, people have made steps. Baby steps.
Ah did anyone happen to think about the fact that the word Subaru is copywritten? This will for sure create some issues.
yes, ole' chux did, however IDK if anyone did anything about it :ugh:
I've attempted contacting the marketing department at Subaru, but no one has responded to me yet. I was planning on making some phone calls today.
subaru isnt going to sue us lol. we are a tiny local club, not a powerhouse club like nasioc making tons of money. at most what they would do is send us an email saying we need to change our name...and i dont see that happening for years if ever, and by then it sounds like we will be needing to setup the nonprofit anyways(if worst came to worst). i tried sending subaru an email awhile back but didnt hear a word back.
if you guys are worried about the club having the word 'subaru' in it, i would think you should be much more worried about using 'subaru' and subarus logo in the club tshirts that were created as that is an actual product that is being sold for profit(much more of a "crime" imo).
^ they sued Ravensblade Impreza for using the word impreza on his website. he was one person. The possibility is always there. I hope we dont cause that would be a huge hassle that no one would want to deal with.
yeah i know. but again, that was a big nationally well known website. subaru just doesnt instantly just sue people...worst case scenario is that they would send an email/phone call to us saying please stop using it. i still think that really is a long shot for happening though.
i also think there is more behind the scenes in that ravensblade case that most people probably dont know about. if subaru treated every site that used the word subaru/impreza on their site you wouldnt seen one subaru related site on the internet other than subaru .com.
I will contact him and ask about the lawsuit.
Alot of the other subaru sites are low key. they only other one that has subaru in the URL is ultimatesubarumessageboard but they arnt an LLC as far as i know.
We were probably below the radar and would have been for awhile. Now that we have filed for an LLC we just broadcasted how we are using a copyrighted name w/o permission. I hope nothing comes from it, or that we can get permission from subaru to use their name. I always think prepare for the worst and hope the best.
Yes. Hopefully SOA would send a Cease and Desist before legal action was taken.
make a different name for the llc but use a DBA MNsubaru.com or something>>