Bad luck or just a 'lemon'? July 2010- Bought my 2002 Outback Ltd wagon. Although it was pretty clean, it did have 160k miles on it. After Walser Subaru looked it over and confirmed that it was in good condition, I picked it up for $5200...supposedly about $2k under KBB. Right of the bat, I replaced the timing belt, water pump and tensioners just to be safe and picked up some new tires. For just over a year, it was great! I had no issues at all and was loving it. I am now at 210k and the last 6 months have been hell! I realize that it is an older car and things will need to be replaced but I never imagined the luck I would have. Some of you may have read my other posts and know what I have dealt with but here is a recap anyway. Sept. 2011- Installed a new(40k miles) 5MT after the current one locked up completely. Replaced clutch. Jan. 2012- After a misdiagnosis from a shop that caused them to need to examine the clutch and pull the tranny, once reinstalled, they never rechecked the fluids and they released the car to me (before XMAS). I ran the transmission dry for 500+ miles. No more 4th or 5th gear. They owned up to their mistake and replaced the transmission... AGAIN. (5MT with 45k miles) Just before XMAS they also put a brand new clutch in. Feb. 2012- Everything is running fine but I start to get an oil leak from the oil pan seal after an oil change... not just a drip either. Burnt oil smell can be smelled inside the car consistently. Rotors are badly warped so I have them turned down. I tell them the front left caliper seems to be sticking but they find nothing. I also tell them it feels like the front left wheel bearing is going.... they do not find anything. While my car sits in their lot waiting for me to pick it up, another customer backs into it with his massive SUV. His insurance covers the damages in full- new front fender, lower trim and repaint door and fender. Mar. 2012- Just dropped off my car this morning to get the oil pan gasket fixed. Pretty sure either the front left caliper is dragging badly or the wheel bearing is finally shot. Not a pretty noise coming from the front left wheel. Steering is also loose but front suspension and linkage is solid. Supposedly new clutch doesn't feel right. It already feels very worn and doesn't grab until the top of the stroke. So yeah, those are the main issues I have dealt with and I feel like the car with just continue to nickel and dime me to death. Sorry for the novel, but I just had to let out the frustration for some knowledgeable car people to read. Since joining the forums not long ago, you all have been wonderful at answering my questions and helping me with things. Thank you! In regards to my current car, I will admit that it is nice to know everything that I have had fixed (which is a lot) but I know that due to the age of the car and the mileage, there will always be more to fix in the future. The sucky thing is that I am not really in a position to buy a new car, nor can I really continue to pay for repairs on this one. I have gotten to the point that my car is just stressing me out. Yesterday I stopped at Walser Subaru in Burnsville. Just for kicks, I test drove a 2012 Impreza Sport. Really nice ride and I am pretty sure I could make the payments but I'm not sure that 'brand new' is what I should do. Out the door I could get it for $22,000 and I would need financing no matter what. A new car would be great and the constant headaches because of repairs would not be missed. The other option would be searching for another used car that is not a 'lemon' but I would again be taking a chance with someone's hand-me-down car and I would still need to finance the purchase. Option 3 is to just suck it up and ride it out with my current car. At some point the repairs will eventually level off... right? I am not expecting any responses but I am open to ANY comments. Thanks for listening!
Damn, sounds like a lot of both! Sorry to hear. The thing with a high mileage older car is that at some point your monthly repair fees equal a new car payment. In my experience, things start failing every month like clockwork or the total annual repair bill spread across 12 months ends up right around what a new car would cost. This only gets exacerbated by the weather and road salt we see up here as structural and body components start to wear prematurely. I'm not sure where you sit on your car, but assuming it makes sense financially to cut your losses and and get a new(er) car, is leasing an option?
I have thought about leasing but I decided that I put too many miles on a car to actually lease. The thought in just biting the bullet for a brand new car, is that I would have a warranty, I wouldn't have to deal with all the repairs... hopefully for a long time. I would also plan to have the car for probably 10 years so the fact that the value depreciates so much right when I drive it off the lot, really doesn't matter much. I would need financing and new cars get better financing. If I were to find a newer, used car... I could get lucky and find something that needs little or no major maintenance and much lower miles. The issue is that I would still need financing and from what I have heard, used car financing is usually double of that of a new car. I would also be paying an inflated price for a used car because it would most likely come from a dealer.
How many miles do you typically log a year? Is the 50k you've done normal for you? Do you use a credit union? I found their used car financing is typically very competitive with new car rates (unless you count dealership incentives when they offer 0% or 0.9%). The problem is the used car market is pretty hot right now, so it's usually pretty close to a wash. The upside with buying used with warranty though is that there's almost always more room for negotiation. Speaking of warranty, that's the reason I suggested leasing. Knowing what I know now and having purchased new, used with factory warranty, and old as balls used several times, I think I would never buy new again unless it was a daily beater lease that I recycled for another lease every 3 years. With the exception of a few collectible and limited run cars, the depreciation hit across 3 years on a new car typically ends up pretty damn close to the cost of a lease over those 3 years (again, assuming you sign up during a deal and don't pay a massive down payment).
New is the way to go if you can afford it and get the good interest rates through Subaru. I was looking for a used 08-09 Legacy a few months back, but with the low interest rates on new, it ended up being cheaper to buy new even though the car was 5k+ more expensive. We got 1.9% on our 2012, vs 5-6% on used. Not to mention the peace of mind of the warranty and no worries of anyone elses problems. Leasing is a good option, but it sounds like you put a good amount of miles on your car (~50k in 2 years) and lease options usually have a mileage limit, typically 12k a year. You can buy additional mileage ahead of time, but at that point, it might put you right around the same area as a tradtional purchase...
I would say other than the usual problems on outbacks, (head gaskets) they are incredibly durable, I think you just have a bit of bad luck. The problem with owning a car and not working on it yourself is usually by the time you can tell there is a problem, and get it somewhere to be fixed, its too late. Sounds like your car was abused, poorly maintained, and driven while broken for quite some time.
Yeah, it's been an unfortunate situation for me since it is my only car. The first transmission was installed with the help of a friend and everything was done correctly. It was great after that. I try to do a lot of the work myself but I rarely have the time and am still learning. I agree that the car was probably abused, poorly maintained and driven broken for a while before I bought it but I would have thought that the professional look-over by a certified Subaru Dealer would have found something before I actually purchased it. As I said, it was great for the first year and then... down hill from there.
I would say that 50k in the time I have owned the car, it maybe a little high but not completely off the charts for me. That is why the lease option doesn't really make a lot of sense for me. I also think that in the time I 'owned' the car, it wouldn't ever feel like it was mine because in the back of my mind I would know I would be returning it. Unfortunately, I don't use a credit union. I am definitely leaning towards replacing my car with something more reliable... whether it is used or new...I don't know yet. I have some shopping to do still. My dad has driven in to my head that it just doesn't make sense to ever purchase a brand new car. There are pros and cons to going that direction. Like mentioned, the used car market is hot right now so values are a little inflated. That is one of the things that is pushing me towards the brand new vehicle instead of going with a used one.
Update: It wasn't the oil pan gasket, the pan is actually cracked. The left front brake caliper is also not releasing. That is why my brand new rotors warped so fast. I inspected the rotors when I installed them last fall and everything was functioning correctly, even replaced the brackets and pins on each of the front brakes. At least I am not having head gasket issues... (probably should not have said that. LOL!)
There are credit unions that will give you near new interest rates for used cars. Wings FCU I know will do 2.9% APR for auto loans on used cars. So, the anecdote about buying a new vs. used is moot. Your best bet would be to find a low mileage 2 year used car because the major depreciation will have already happened by the 3 year mark.
The issue with credit unions is you need to build a history with them. If you walk in off the street looking for a loan you'll need a lot of capital or equity to back it up, along with good credit history and low credit to debt ratio. Basically, if the loan officer doesn't know you, you need to be really low risk or already have the means to pay off the loan amount coming in the door. Thank goodness I listened to my sister 12 years ago and setup a savings account with Affinity Plus for $10 and direct deposited 1% of each paycheck since. My history with them has earned me several great incentives including rewards points that were redeemable for an additional .5% off my mortgage rate last time I refinanced to a shorter term (alternatively I could have used it for an additional 1% off their already low 1% for 12-months up to 6% over 72-months used car loans). This was also 2 and a half years ago when getting approved for credit was next to impossible. Pretty typical of credit unions in general and impossible at the other big corporate banks I bank with. Anyway, OP it's not too late to set up a small account at a credit union. Most of them you don't even need to be active to earn "points." Just leave $10 in savings or whatever their terms call for. As far as depreciation goes, Readymix is right on about looking for something 2-3 years old as most will qualify for CPO warranty if not still under original factory warranty. Also, like he mentioned, most will have taken the brunt of their depreciation hit unless you're looking at an easy to move model like a Honda Fit. Hell, we got our LGT brand new as an outgoing model for 9k under sticker. So keep an eye out for those kinds of deals as well now that the 2013 models are about to start rolling in.
The reason I mentioned Wings is because all they require is a direct deposit. At least that's what someone that works there told me. I'm going to setup a small portion of my check to go there for that very reason. I plan on buying a car through them probably this year.
Go on... Also: http://globalautosports.com/index.c...&f_came_from=make&f_model_id=263&pos=1&rpp=18 and http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos...ename=ferrari&modelname=308&modelid=7&catid=1 and http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/automobiles-sale/269297-fs-1999-355-gts.html
What does the depreciation hit matter if he intends on keeping the car 10+ years? I doesn't. In 8-10 years, which car will have a higher re-sale? The newer car (typically). If you only plan on keeping the car a few years, then it would be something to think about. Credit Union financing also depends a lot on the age/mileage of the car you are looking at and the length of financing. You won't get 2.9% on a 2004 with 120k miles for 60 months. You'll need to be looking at 2-3 year old cars with low mileage to get the best rates, which, from what I've seen with Suby's, will put you within a few thousand dollars of new...
Really? I got 0.9% through 5.9% (1-6 year) on a 7 year old used car. The up front cost matters. Also, if he continues at 25k miles a year, none of his cars are going to have high resale value in 8-10 years lol. New, outgoing models also take a depreciation hit. Those are the ones to look at in his scenario imho. Especially if he's logging that many miles.
Yeah, I got 4.25% for 60 months on my 05 with 94k on it. It's possible, but not typical... Agreed on new outgoing models, great deals to be had there, dealers want "old" stuff off their lots. Regardless, OP should sit down and run the numbers both ways and see what works best for him.
That's very nice of you. After some thought though, I don't want another project car. No matter how easy they are to work on, they are still Ferraris. And they will still require lots of garage queen maintenance. We're leaning towards an early 90's NSX at this point.
That's what I'm talking about. Magnum PI Ferrari is cool and all, but I always have, do and will have a soft spot for a proper NSX. One of the few cars I absolutely loved as a kid that I STILL loved after I got a chance to drive one.
I'll stay on topic, A 'lemon' is when the same problem happens over and over. Alot of this sounds like a lack of general mantence. Are those the original wheel bearings? Are you going to the same shop everytime?
Thanks phi11! To answer your questions, pretty sure they are the original wheel bearing but I don't know. Since I have owned it, I have been very diligent with proper maintenance... although I think I am also dealing with the lack of or poor maintenance from the previous owner(s). I have been using the same shop BUT I will not be going back. I have watched them make too many stupid mistakes and the mistakes have cost me a fair amount of money! They are really nice guys and were initially highly recommended but I now question their abilities and knowledge. The good thing is that they have always acted very professionally in dealing with the situations. The fact of the matter is that I just need to walk away from them now because I just can't afford the mistakes.
I looked into getting a loan on a used car and it was much more reasonable than I thought it would be. I am only looking at up to $15000, would like to find something for less than that though. Depending on the term of the loan the rates range from 2.99% to a little over 4% for a secured loan. Just have to give the bank the VIN# and mileage of the car to see if it will qualify. I'm looking for something with 70k or less miles on it and under $15k. Right now, that doesn't really put me in the market for another Subaru. Looking at some Mazda3s right now.
