Oil light came on after two days with the new block???

thats a lot of sealent on the o ring... I barely used some when I re did my seals...

 

Try cutting apart your oil filter and look at what got caught in there. If there were chunks of gasket sealer floating around, there should be some in there.

 

HAHA did some one else get a oil pump installed be cummins?? According to Dave Ebert the warranty rep that is not a problem.

 

Took the pump today at Morries and it looks like the pump was defective. We found some real fine metal shavings in the port for the pressure relief valve and that was holding the valve from closing again to build pressure. We pulled the pump componenets apart and found stuff scored by something. When you rotated the pump by hand you could feel the spots were things were catching and rubbing.

In the end, Brian at Morries helped me out big time. I got new seals and a pump so that I can hopefully be back on the road tonight. Back to the parent's garage for round 1,000,000,004 (Subaru wagon vs. learning mechanic...FIGHT!)

As allways, thanks for the help and wish me luck.

 

the luck is wished.

 

^^^+1

 

New pump, all new seals, new oil, everything inspected,.... turned it over for 5 seconds with the crank position sensor pulled....ZERO PRESSURE!!! AHHHHH!

The #%$@!-ing SUCKS!

Are you sure the time estimates for the engine to build pressure are on? I did a real short one to start, then a five second counted out one, then plugged the sensor port with my finger to see if I could feal anything, then poured a little oil into the senor port and tried for a few seconds. None of those caused my gage to even blip off zero psi. Gage never even had oil touch it.

What's next? I dread taking this to the shop now. I really have no clue what it would be though. I don't think there is any way that the oil passages could be blocked preventing pressure from reaching the sensor.... the pickup is good.... the pump is good?????

 

How cold was the motor when you were cranking it over? I've never been able to get measurable pressure on my mechanical gauge by cranking the motor when its fresh. As soon as it fires, couple seconds and the pressure zings right up. I'm using the higher volume pump as well.

 

On other cars, I've had similar results as this. I'd hate to tell you to start it up and actually have no pressure, but you also may no be able to figure it out without doing so. But lets get some more opinions with specific subie oil pump/pressure experience.

 

Subarus start up procedure for a dry engine, which with the new pump you basically have. Is crank it over 3 times for no more then 15 seconds each with out fuel or plugs in. Also there is a good chance a piece of rtv or the like is in the passageway to the pressure switch giving you a false "0" pressure reading. If that is the case crank it over with no sender or gauge screwed in and the oil pressure should push the blockage out. this could be a mess.

 

So what is the consensus on starting the car and letting it run to produce oil pressure? Huge gamble?

It was my thought that it would take a lot longer for the pump to build oil pressure, if it could at all, with just the starter cranking the engine over at who knows what rpm.

If I bring this to a shop, what are they going to do different?

There are two ports on the bottom of the oil pump, one on the pressure side and one on the inlet side.... is there any way to feed oil into the inlet side port and then run a pressure gage on the other side. I could force a little oil into the pump then on the inlet side to ensure that the pump isn't starving. By additionally hooking up a gage to the pressure side of the pump I could isolate the pump in a test. Problem, ha ha, where do I get the stuff to do this?

I am at the end of my wits with this thing....wow

 

try removing the ignition fuse, and crank it a few times, to help build pressure, kinda like a turbo swap

 

fire it up for just a few seconds,its not even close to the same thing, but my old olds motor ran without oil pressure for 30 minutes, the engine still lived for a while, then i pulled it for a bigger one, i say let it run for maybe 10 seconds to see if anything registers

 

...and you are going to pay for everything that fries when the engine fails in 9 seconds?

 

NO SIR! but i can give you a killer deal on another shortblock

 

an old trick the v8 builders use, is to pack the pump rotors/gears with vaseline. It serves a couple of purposes.
1. it lubes everything prior to pressure building.
2. it helps the pump develop a vacum to pull the oil up the pickup tube.
3. it is oil soluble so it will mix with the oil.

Just don't go into a store to buy it with your buddy who is helping you, it will be some thing you never forget.

 

That's what I have been doing the whole time.

 

Is your gauge still installed? Is the car at room temp, about 60-70 degrees? If so, you should know in less than 5 seconds whether or not you are getting oil pressure. Cripes, my oil pressure gauge runs off of my turbo feed and has 5 feet of -3 to fill with pressure and it zings up to 70psi in under 2 seconds, when its not -98375656424 degrees outside.

Also, what are you cleaning the surface of the pump and block with? Acetone is the only thing I've found to dissolve cured silicone. Come things have a bit of acetone in them, but the pure stuff works much faster.

 

How about measuring pressure in some other place other than the galley? Like a sandwich adapter or smth or the other galley pulg?

 

Point me in the direction...?

 

You shouldn't have to check in any other place. If you do, then you have a problem with the block.

 

you could always try pulling the plug for the relief valve to see if there is oil getting to the pump.

 

That could be the issue. No oil to the pump due to a blocked pick-up, or a fallen off pick-up = no good!

 

What do you mean? Sandwich adapter plugs between block and filter, second galley plug is typically closed off in stock form but its there (plug is 1/4" bspt tread I think), and is typicall below the point where the NA trottle body would be, or below IC on turbo cars. Some people use it for aftermarket oil pressure/temperature sensor.

 

So I figured I would post a few pics for people to get an idea of what I am doing and how things work with the oil pump.

First, this is the back side of the pump that faces the engine with the fastenrs removed on the pump back plate....

 

This is the pump back plate taken off....

 

This is a close-up of the pump mechanics. Basically oil comes in on the right and the center gear turns counter-clockwise to grab oil and pass it to the right, the pressure/outlet side

 

I pulled off the port-plug on the inlet side of the pump....

 

I then pressed a hose into the inlet side of the pump and used a vaccum to pull oil out of the oil pan. Oil came right up the hose and shows me that I still have a tight seal on the inlet side of the pump down into the oil pan.

 

I put the same hose inot the pressure-port of the pump (right side port in the picture above) and tested to see if the pump was pushing out any oil at all when turning the engine over with the starter. We turned the car over for about 5 seconds and not evena drop of oil came out into the hose....

I can't imagine that my brand new pump is broke enough to not pass this test. Basically, either the pump is broken and not able to produce enough negative pressure to pull oil into it, we aren't turning the engine over long enough for the pump to pull oil into the system from the oil pan, or just turning over with the starter isn't ever going to create enough negative pressure to pull the oil into the pump and we will have to start the engine and let it idle before anything happens.

What are the recommendations of the forum for my next test?

Update: Put the hose on the inlet side of the pump again and made sure that the seal was good on the port. Even sucking with just my mouth the test tube relatively instantly fills full of oil drawing from the pan. I am thinking that I will start the engine up now with the hose hooked up to the pressure side. With the extra rpms I imagine the pump will finally prime itself and produce oil in the tube pretty quick. I just don't think that the pump creates enough pressure dry to pull oil very well or very quick.

Again, opinions?

 

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!

Switched the test hose to the oil outlet and started the car to see if the faster rpms would create the correct pressure to get the system work. Well, waited about 2 seconds and the oil shot out the hose. Luckily I had it feeding into an oil jug. 2 seconds of pumping probably pushed about a 1/4 qrt of oil out.

Put both plugs back in to give the mechanical gage a test and make sure oil was running through the engine... started it up, waited about 2 seconds, and a I got the gift of watching my gage snap up to about 90 psi and hold steady.

Conclusion.... you can't spin the pump fast enough with just the starter to create pressure in the system. You need to start the engine and let it sit for a bit idling to get the dry system to prime and start pumping oil.

Now we drive it again and see how long things work for this round.

Thanks again for the help guys!

 

Yes, glad to hear everything is working. Your determination has been pretty hardcore.

 

Nice! Congrats!

And now, you have much more knowledge and experience then you did before, sounds like a win win.

 

congrats! it's a great feeling to finally get something working after headscratching for days

 

Well....LOL....

it lasted about 20 minutes and at about 3AM last night on my way home from my parents house the temperature started to climb. I pulled over about 2 miles from my parent's house and let it cool down, drove home, and it is back in the garage.

I picked up a new thermostat this morning and I am going to put it in this afternoon.

So, round 100,000,001....go! ha ha

 

damn, you have ****ty luck lol

 

I have had projects like this, they never seem to get done for long. Sorry man