Oktoberfest RallyCross discussion and smack talk thread

Discussion in 'MNSubaru Event Center' started by Vector, Sep 8, 2008.

  1. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    CLARIFICATION TO DIRECTIONS!!!

    217 AVE is not well marked but the turn is 1.6 miles North after the Co. Rd 33 overpass.
    There is also a big sign advertising dirt for sale at the turn off.


    Time for a new one ladies and germs.

    The penultimate round of the 2008 Sports Car Club of America Land o' Lakes Region RallyCross Championship (SCCALOLRRXC for short :laugh: ) will take place on October 5, in Elk River, MN.



    Anyhow, I'll be back behind the wheel for this event, so all you effete AWD types can start worrying about being shown up by a 17 year old Sentra again.

    And I'm registered, paid. You can too.

    http://www.scca-lol.org/rally/rallyx/schedule.php
     
  2. prezawagon
    Offline

    prezawagon Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    233
    Wow, that looks like a great course. I hope I can make it to this one, I probably won't know until the last minute.
     
  3. TSTRBOY2004
    Offline

    TSTRBOY2004 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    403
    Trophy Points:
    393
    I think I HAVE to make this one... how bad would it be running 35 series tires ;)
     
  4. Back Road Runner
    Offline

    Back Road Runner Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    233
    That's right, start bright and early with the smack, lol. :laugh:

    I got nothing...

    Great location though and good fun.
     
  5. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    I have no idea, as I've never run anything less than a 55 series.

    I'd think with a sidewall that short, you'd actually have less chance of debeading, just because there isn't a lot to flex around.

    OTOH, if you caught a rock, it could be unpleasant on the rims :(

     
  6. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    I alwasys forget multi-quote for my first reply.

    That course (you can actually see two versions) was from a couple of years ago. This years' course will certainly be somewhat different, but you get a feel for the scope.

    The earlier the smack starts, the more we can get in before the event!
     
  7. carl
    Offline

    carl Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    183
    looking forward to this!
     
  8. wrexinator03
    Offline

    wrexinator03 Banana Cream

    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    223
    hhhhmmmmm i should attempt to make this one.......well maybe...thats the duluth cruise weekend!
     
  9. ArcticWolf
    Offline

    ArcticWolf Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    101
    I should hopefully be able to make this one... not entirely sure, may have to take a trip out west instead...

    ...horrible excuse, I know. :laugh:
     
  10. TSTRBOY2004
    Offline

    TSTRBOY2004 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    403
    Trophy Points:
    393
    oh so you havent seen my rims form driving on gravel roads have ya... ha ha ha ha
     
  11. Scuba Steve
    Offline

    Scuba Steve Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    173
    already signed up, wouldn't miss it for anything.
     
  12. Ylime
    Offline

    Ylime Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    248
    well I most likely will be working cause I took the weekend after off. but If I am not working or moving count me in!
     
  13. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    Gravel scrapes up rims. Rocks bend them. That's what I would be concerned about. I don't think I've seen any big rocks in the Cannon Falls 1 site. I don't know about Elk River.
     
  14. carl
    Offline

    carl Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    183
    don't be fail like josh :eek3:
     
  15. Scuba Steve
    Offline

    Scuba Steve Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    173

    Ouch....

    :munching:...waits for Josh to respond
     
  16. stick
    Offline

    stick New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    IIRC, the Elk River site has two surfaces. One is hard packed gravel, like Corcoran. The other is just earth that has been moved and filled in. ie. kinda soft and who knows what's underneath. I didn't see any big rocks, but you never know.
     
  17. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    For comparison's sake, this is the Pease site on the left (where we were on Sunday) and the Cannon Falls 1 site on the right. Images are to scale (if not the same resolution).
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Scuba Steve
    Offline

    Scuba Steve Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Whoa, that's huge!!!

    What's the average time of this location?
     
  19. Kevin
    Offline

    Kevin Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    121
    i think it is usually around a minute or so...

    not sure what or if i will be driving but most likely will be there
     
  20. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    It's been up to 5 minutes depending on conditions and layout. I think 1.5-2 has been more typical though.

     
  21. carl
    Offline

    carl Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    183
    5 minute laps ftw
     
  22. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    You'd think that, but it turns out to be less than entirely pleasant. It was pretty much lock-to-lock over and over and over and 5 minutes of that is hard on the drivers and cars.

    I think 1 minute to 1.5 minute runs is perfect.
     
  23. rallywife
    Offline

    rallywife New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe it tends to me more in the 2 to 2 1/2 min length. Used to make for icky nasty math for scoring. New timing system good...very good. :)

    Carrie
     
  24. sniper1rfa
    Offline

    sniper1rfa New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If you don't go, how will i make up the extra 7 seconds that i'm behind you...?



    I need to hit less conez. :laugh:
     
  25. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    http://scca-lol.org/rally/rallyx/results/2008SeasonPointsR5.pdf

    Updated season points.

    A few notes of interest for MNSubaru people.

    Mark Utecht wrapped up the Championship in M4. He cannot be caught any longer.

    Amy and Carl are neck and neck for the 3rd spot in M4, and depending on Jim Cox's participation in the last two events, they could be fighting for second...

    In PA, it's a battle between Joel and Denny, with 3rd right available to either Amy or Brent, should they bother (they both typically run different classes, and only ran PA at Dog Daze because of the contingencies).

    In M2, I'm still in a very tight race with Brent and Guy, though I gained a small bit of breathing room when Brent took second on Sunday and Guy took 5th. My fate is in my own hands, but it's not over until it's over. Take last year where 2nd literally slipped out of my hands in the final seconds of the season.
     
  26. carl
    Offline

    carl Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Mr. Drury also factors into the M4 3rd place battle - the guys on fire and should he take 2nd in the next too he'll be right up in it
     
  27. prezawagon
    Offline

    prezawagon Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    233
    Ok, looks like I'm out of PA.

    http://snowstates.com/scca_lol/index.php?PHPSESSID=cd6edc2d7d0c89569b8f144db2e87641&topic=283.0

    I didn't realize my rear diff bumped me to M4. I'm sorry about that. That got replaced a while ago when I had to replace my old transmission.

    How does this get handled? I'll be sure to register for M4 for any more rallyXs, I think my results should get dropped from PA for the previous events.
     
  28. Scuba Steve
    Offline

    Scuba Steve Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    173

    yes he is...ninja style.

    I wouldn't be suprised that within a couple years Mark U. wakes up in the middle of the night...screaming that's he's having bad nightmares of Dan dethrowning him....:eek:hnoes:
     
  29. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    I meant to add this too, but I was rushing to get it written before I had to go pick up my kid from pre-school. Boomer is definitely picking up the pace.

    I have no idea. I'm thinking the protest period is over for the event, so the results (and the results of all previous events) stands.

    Going forward? I guess you'll be in M4 the rest of the season unless you swap the diff back to stock. You'll still probably get 2nd season in PA. But that's just me guessing.
     
  30. mayhem83
    Offline

    mayhem83 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    101
    The results of previous events can't be changed, nor can the points. There is protest period and that has elapsed.

    This is a good time to remind/inform folks that Tech inspection is really just a safety inspection. It is not our goal to "catch" classing errors at that time. It is up to the entrant to enter their car in the correct class. If others in the class feel a car is classed incorrectly, they have the right to file a protest to have the classing corrected.

    As to the diff in question, I know nothing about it. I can tell you that next year you will be able to change ONE diff in PA. For the remainder of this year, it appears you must enter M4. If you only changed one diff, you can enter PA next year.

    I hope this helps.
     
  31. 02blubru
    Offline

    02blubru Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    173
    You will be waiting a week since he is in fergus falls with not internet access.



    Also, I think I will make this one. :naughty:
     
  32. sniper1rfa
    Offline

    sniper1rfa New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Any way to let him run PA for the last two events? I didn't really mean to call him out and bust up his chances for placing, for what seems like a rather mild mod. After all, i've been putting up very similar (and occasionally better) times with a comparable car with open diffs front and rear.




    Also, is there a way to recommend further explanation in the rulebooks to SCCA? There is no mention of driveline components nor is there mention of steering components (such as the rack, column (quickeners), or wheel). Also, there is no "intent of class" description, which would allow a person to use their judgment.

    I guessed in regards to the steering rack from what you told us at the second cannon falls race concerning upcoming changes to the rules, but that was merely my recollection of what you'd said (in that prepared was supposed to be "stuff you can buy for most any car" and mod was "stuff not readily available or custom fabricated").



    EDIT: sorry for the ninja edits, trying not to step on toes. :)
     
  33. boomer
    Offline

    boomer Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    223
    Thanks guys I appreciate the kind words but I still have a long way to go and lots to learn before I'm scaring anyone.
     
  34. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    Quite frankly at this point, it only affects two people for the championship. Joel and Denny. As Joel finished 4th at Corcoran, he didn't even push anybody out of the contingency money at the divisional (I think). Joel, I would contact Denny and ask him how he feels about it. Frankly, he's in a better position than you for the championship (he is the eventmaster at the next event, so he can take away 10 points automatically, if you take 1st at the last two events and he takes 2nd at the last one, you tie for 1st in the championship. If he beats you, he wins. I suspect Denny would rather have a little competition than win by default, but you'd need to ask him.

    If he doesn't mind, I can't see any good reason why anyone else would lodge a protest against you running in PA, at least on our regional level. If this was nationals or another divisional, then it would be a big deal.


    The #1 thing in the rulebook, and it seems the least thought about is this. If it doesn't specifically say you can do it, you can't. So if it doesn't discuss something, you can't do it.
     
  35. sniper1rfa
    Offline

    sniper1rfa New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Fair enough. Just seems like there are legitimate non-racing reasons for some mods that would drop you into mod. For example, swapping in a later model transmission to replace a blown (and unavailable) tranny might put you in mod unknowingly, even though it was done out of necessity.





    Not that the classing rules really do a whole lot to level the field anyway, but that's a conversation for a different day. :)
     
  36. carl
    Offline

    carl Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    183
    let joel run PA! competition is good! dan, amy and I (and now andrew) have a pretty good m4 battle going on, it's a lot of fun.
     
  37. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    This makes sense to your average person.

    To your long-time racer/autocrosser looking for any way to get an edge, it's a gaping hole waiting to be exploited. And that's why things are the way they are. Intent of a class means nothing once you get past a certain point of competition, and the letter of the law is all that matters.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, there should be 4 classes. 2wd stock, 2wd not-stock, 4wd stock and 4wd not-stock. But that's not the SCCA way. Anyone have any idea how many classes there are in SCCA Autocross these days?
     
  38. carl
    Offline

    carl Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    183
    probably 36 or something like that
     
  39. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    I'd say it's up to Denny, and he doesn't visit this board, but his contact info is on the schedule, so that's where Joel should go next.

    The last couple years in M2 have been a lot of fun. with Kevin, Erik and myself last year, this year with Brent, Guy and now his son Seth is starting to make some noise. Add in John in Karl Biewald's old car now, and next year should be even more fun.
     
  40. sniper1rfa
    Offline

    sniper1rfa New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Heh, i'm aware of THAT little conundrum.


    In battlebots (and paintball, now), most classing is done by basic performance metrics and experience. For example, in battlebots we have BBIQ for high school/ college and professional battlebots. Once you go up a level, you can't go back down. Then the competitions themselves are limited by weight and safety requirements (IE, no rockets, no guns, no retardedly high air pressures). Rookie teams get a weight allowance the first season. It does tend to keep people like me from sandbagging outrageously and laying the smackdown on the newbs. :laugh:



    EDIT: SCCA autocross has nine classes, i think.
    stock
    STS
    STS2
    STX
    STU
    street prep
    street mod
    prepared
    modified


    Compared to 8 rallyx classes
    SA,F,R
    PA,F,R
    M4
    M2
     
  41. Ylime
    Offline

    Ylime Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    248
    :laugh: I will never be fail like josh! I will at least try and come watch!! maybe more cake? anyone consider bringing a grill and grilling lunch?
     
  42. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    Not even close.

    AS,BS,CS,DS,ES,FS,GS,HS and SS in the stock category alone. Not sure how the other categories are broken down. I don't want to figure out the actual number, it makes my head hurt. I only had 2 years of calculus.
     
  43. sniper1rfa
    Offline

    sniper1rfa New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Whoa, i must have the wrong rulebook. hah!

    Anyway, back to smacktalk. In that vein...


    Amy, i'm going to seize that tenth of a second and smash it to smithereens with a...
    uhm.
    A smashy thing beginning with an "S"!
     
  44. Vector
    Offline

    Vector Rally Organizer

    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    268
    No, you have the right categories, I think. It's just that some/most/all of them are broken down into more actual classes.
     
  45. prezawagon
    Offline

    prezawagon Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    233
    Yeah, I replaced the transmission because of a failing center diff in the old transmission. I found a good deal on a 2000 RS transmission, and found a rear diff that I was told was out of a 2000 RS, so it should be a vlsd. My car is a 2000 Outback sport.

    But, that transmission also changed my final drive from 3.9 to 4.111 (which is why I had to put a different rear diff in), and it probably has different gear ratios compared to my stock tranny.

    Along the same lines, when I replaced my clutch, I had a pressure plate and disc intended for an EJ25 put in, and I have an EJ22, I don't know if they're different, but possibly. I also replaced the flywheel with one from a junkyard that was just marked as being from a 93-97 Impreza, so that might be different as well. So I guess with the idea that if it doesn't say you can, you can't, then I have a few reasons to be in M4.

    Ultimately I don't really care what class I'm in as long as I'm in the right class. I feel bad for not understanding the rules and potentially pissing off other people.

    I guess when I was originally reading the rules to see what class I belonged in I didn't think of my replacement parts as being modified.

    I will get ahold of Denny and see what he says, I think I owe him a set of capshure valve stem caps at least. I will plan to run M4 from now on.