I had a ap, but I sold it. I am going to upgrade to the ap2.0. But I am also running a utec on top of the ecu flash for my meth/race gas maps. With the 4eat tranny, i really just need a ecu flash to control the major fuel things. Once I had that all dialed in, then I just set up a basic pump gas map with the ap and called it good. Once this summer rolls around, i will start in with my meth injection and race gas maps that will all be on the utec. I might even mess around with the speed density stuff and completely get rid of the maf. So just call it "I like to have many options". Russ
dang.. it certainly sounds like it... didnt know you could run an openecu thingo with the AP as well... I am not an electronics guy... I just spend a lot of time at my computer playing on forums.. ha ha wish I knew more, but I am the hands on, bend soem piping and weld it together guy...
Man, this thread went from informative to flame right quick. I'll tell you my rationale for going the openecu track. 1) The health of my car. Off the shelf maps from anywhere scare me. I'd rather know my car is happy and running safely with whatever map I put on it. Like everyone says, each car is different. In my case, I'd like to see what she's doing first hand. 2) Knowledge. I have the time to learn, so why not? If I know what I'm doing RE my personal car's tuning, then I'll be able to make those quick adjustments when needed (and share my knowledge with others, subaru forums rule). 3) Customization and driveability. Just like every car is different, every aftermarket part is different. I'd like to tune for my specific setup, not pay to use someone else's generic setup (aka #1). Additionally, my car is a daily driver, so the powerband's smoothness is as important as power output.
Heck, I took a look at the merged Slow Boy Racing thread over on Nasioc and couldn't believe the crap they throw at each other! :eek4:
All I am saying is that you have to pay to play. The part that I am knocking is that everyone is flashing everyone else's cars with these maps, and I am willing to bet at best maybe 2 people actually have the proper equipement to monitor the motor (ie egt and afr). if you don't trust cobb maps, I sure as hell wouldn't trust some of the openecu maps. I have seen some of them that have pulled 3-4 dergees of timing because of a "knock" issue. If you am not watching the motor with a egt, you will not notice that when you pull out 3-4 degrees of timing that your egt will skyrocket and things will melt. I have seen and done this. This spring I was running about 3 degrees timing less than what I currently have, and everything looked good except the egts, they were over 1600 by 5000rpm. I added some timing and the egt's dropped right down to the 1500-1550 mark and everything else is good. Just remember, just cuz you knock doesn't mean it is timing. Russ
Good point, but another issue I have with street tuning, is how are you going to establish MBT? Sure you can add or take away timing until a knock sensor is quiet, or make noice, or egt's shift..but how much power are you actually gaining? (or loosing?). This is one of the only communities I've seen that just like to swap unproven maps back and forth, without checking for Vital information...
Good,then you'll hit knock/detonation way before then. So you guys are monitoring knock voltage/retard and just advancing until that gets loud? I just don't understand or like street tuning without a controlled environment.
after i get my wideband installed i'm going to need a tune (just had a base map flashed). I may have to schedule an appointment
Your right, but the only problem with a controlled environment is that the "real world" isn't controlled. You tune at one controlled temp, which is most efficient at "that temp". I see where your coming from, but everyone has different thinking when it comes to tuning, and the proper way of doing it. Tuning should be done with both EGT and Wide Band 02, but even then if you don't know what your doing, you shouldn't be playing with it.
the proper way is to let your stock ecu do all the work, like me LOL no managment and boost FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no but srsly this has turned into a urinating match.
Hince the use of temperature corrections. EGT gauges are very useful...in airplanes. It is what they were designed for. They are nice to see changes/timing shifts, but a logger will tell you that as well. Our dyno simulates the real world (load). It is why it is referred to as a rolling road. I agree that if you have no clue, you really shouldn't be tuning cars. There are MANY variables to make a car run normal, and the OEM does a very good job of it. I have plenty of AEM equipped cars running around that start normal, idle normal, drive normal, get great mileage, and make gobs of power on pump gas. Heck, some of them people don't even realize it is a standalone. The only way I can consistantly beat the OEM is my extensive training and $150,000+ of tooling to make it happen. Street tuning works, don't get me wrong, but I have yet to see a "perfectly" tuned street car that I couldn't get more out of. I am sure they exist, but people that usually push a car on the street to the ragged edge, usually end up going to far. I perfer to tune on the dyno and at the track. All I am saying is that Tuning is a very risky business. Sure generic flashes work just fine, and trading basemaps from car to car with similar mods usually works okay. The beauty of having a custom flash done is that it is Taylored to your vehicle. The car I tuned today hit the sweet spot with timing. I ended up adding a bit from the factory map. I added a bit more, and it lost power, so I knew I was done. It was a fine line, but I am confident the car will drive without any issues for a VERY long time on that conservative tune. The openecu software/forum/editing process is awesome. I really wish it was around years ago for when I was street tuning dsm's, makes it much easier than editing raw code and burning chips. Let alone tuning with knobs, s-afc's, and pocketloggers. I just want people to stay safe and not blow up cars....that is ALL I am getting at. Not trying to get into a pissing match...
Subaru ECUs don't work like most other cars out there. They have closed loop timing that actively seeks out light knock. You aren't going to hit MBT on pump gas, so by the ECU searching out light knock, you usually get close to max power. The way the stock ECU handles timing though, does make the cars a bit inconsistant powerwise sometimes. As far as the base Cobb Tunes go, some of the cars that I have tuned had to be tuned even less agressive than the generic Stage 2 maps, because they would experience way too much knock even with those maps. I don't know if they have better gas in Utah at Cobb, or if it's the elevation there or what, but their base tunes are nowhere as conservative as a base tune that you find for other cars.
^^^ Yup! What I (and pretty much every other Subaru tinkerer) does is to slowly increase timing while logging knock correction (I use KC tables that I can memorize easily) until the car will not pull the maximum KC number for a given rpm/load cell. Then I know that the car has reached maximum timing for that given fuel. After all is said and done, I'll smooth out the timing curve and maybe drop the base timing by a degree to add in some extra safety measure. And the problem I've found with the Cobb stg2 map is that they still use the stock load scaling for their timing. A typical CS2 car will exceed this maximum load (and will require less timing) and knock as a result since the ecu will use the last load column.
so, is it even possible for someone to find my ecu uhhh definitions? 1997 2.5 dohc legacy obd2 YES OBD2
there is a variable in the list for it. i think you have to change it to percentage though so its more readable...not sure though
You need to log Fuel Injector #1 Pulse Width (ms) but right click anywhere on the right hand pane and change it to load.
The 91 octane here in SLC seems to net much better throttle responce and power. Atleast on my butt dyno. In MN it seemed like it was necassary to reset the ecu every month to realize power again but here it doesnt seem like its required. this is on an 06 sti.
You probably shouldn't reset your ecu all of the time. Your engine is more than likely knocking and pulling timing across the board. Resetting the ecu will erase the learned knock correction matrix (and possibly increase the DAM if it dropped below the preset value) and the car will run higher total timing for a while. Thus the car will feel quicker for a while at the expense of it pinging.
I got another question, when can we organize a meet to talk in person about open ecu, I got some questions best served in person, I'd also like to hear other's theories/ideas on tuning. I've talked a bit with Russ about tuning at firestone, but sometimes being a fly on the wall, you get to her people with more experince ask good questions I wouldn't have thought of. Right now I'm running a stage 2 map, that I know can be better, but I'd like talk and listen to some people that have experince tuning, a bit more before I start tweaking little by little, I'd also like to get a wideband 02 sensor first. Anyone want to start with time date and place suggestion, I think being in lakeville I'm further south than most people. I'll buy the first pitcher or 2, or the first couple pizzas. -Nick
<== somewhat interested. Although I would call myself a tuning newbie, I do think I've learned a LOT in the past 2-3 months just by reading forums, tuning guides, ect. However, it's always nice to be able to talk to someone who can answer all those tough questions that might not be answered on the forums (or, those that you'd get flamed for asking!).
