Have you ever been to the ER in an US urban center? You'll be waiting 4 hours+ as well. Also, private insurance is extremely cheap in the UK because they have a legitmate alternative. I got a year of coverage for under $600 per year. I don't think we should copy any of these solutions. We should look at them and see what works and what doesn't. Sure the UK system has some deep, depp flaws, but it also has a few good things that are worth learning. Right now, the private sector has completely failed us in regards to health care. We spend way too much for way too little care. We need a change. i'm not quite sure what that change is, and I donb't think a fully socialized system is the alterantive. However, we shouldn't simply dismiss implementing parts of a system because that country has its own issues.
So does Australia... but if you go social.. your tooth will rot within a year of being fixed... ask me
actully I just saw two smart cars today and I love them. I would so get one, and the people on a smart car forum might have a bit more in common with.;-)
Yes. No more politics from me on this forum. Actually I think I said that a couple month ago and broke my promise, oh well. Maybe this time it will be more serious.
Really? Have you tried waiting until it has cooled off? That would be my first step... |Sarcasm: *****|*****|
Allow me to retort. What is the difference in paying for Health Care in taxes, or out of pocket? Seriously. Think about it for one more second. In, lets say, France, when you get a paycheck (assuming that you work), your taxes are listed and broken down into what amount is going to what section of the government. Whether its Health Care, Day Care, Education...whatever. So, at least you see where it's going which would be nice. But, when you go to the hospital, you don't need to pay, have an HMO, or need to verify that your "insurance company" allows said hospital for care. That would be nice. In comparing the two systems, and using average incomes and taxes, it comes out to the FACT that we end up paying more for all of it. People say that France is taxed to all beat hell, but in reality we are "taxed" more, because we end up paying more for the same services that are determined "universal" or "national." The difference adds up to be about 4-5k a year. You can go on and on about "waiting" times, but in reality, at any hospital here, you have to wait as well. Let me remind you as well Brian, that the fire department you volunteer at or work for (can't remember), is SOCIALIZED!!! Yes. That evil, evil word. Where does the funding come from? Taxes! When you get your mail...SOCIALIZED. When you need, or get pulled over by a police officer for speeding in your suby or gas-guzzling SUV, where do you think the money comes from to keep them patrolling the streets? SOCIALISM!!! As you can see, Socialized programs are not the devil, and they are not evil. You pay taxes. You pay premiums for insurance and pharmaceuticals. You pay the day care provider. You pay A LOT for college, and end up working the next ten years just to pay it off. You pay no matter what. So complaining that "National" Health Care will raise taxes, is a moot point. You end up paying more here, for services that are "free" in every other western nation. But it goes deeper than just providing Health Care to all. Pharmaceutical and Insurance regulation needs to be addressed. It's these companies that run the government, when it comes to health care. Don't blame the government for being too involved and regulating this and that. It's more about corporate influence. Our government doesn't work for free unfortunately, and these companies spend extreme amounts of money keeping the legislators in their pocket, by putting tons of cash in theirs. France's debt to GDP is about 66%. United States debt to GDP is about 70%. France's debt is about 2 trillion. US debt is rapidly approaching 10 trillion. Its stuff like funding this war that forces the increasing debt, kills the economy, and is rendering the people at home (if theirs hasn't foreclosed) poor, unhealthy, and apathetic. What it also does, is keep the people in power, in power. The top 10% go on as nothing is happening, while the rest of the country cries for answers and solutions. Get rid of entitlements and political band-aids. Get rid of the pre-emptive Imperialistic foreign policy, and start taking care of our own. Stop sending our future to foreign wars, and then not giving them what they need to do their job. Stop treating them like crap and neglecting their needs when they get home. Stop feeding the pig. Ok...
The difference is choice. If you nationalize college tuition, we will all pay for it regardless of whether or not each person actually attends. Oh, and since we're all paying for it then all of us should have equal access to it. Doing so is going to lower standards to make everyone eligible for admission. It will also cause the government to federalize most colleges. There a few programs, military being one, where the gov't will do a better job than the private sector. Let's put socialized medicine into terms we can all relate to: cars. The gov't declares socialized car ownership because some people can afford Ferraris while others are struggling with 7-year loans to buy a truck they don't really need but decided, on their own, to buy anyway. It just isn't fair, you see. They also want to regulate carbon emissions to try to fix "global warming". You are now given two choices of vehicle, paid for by our taxes. You can have a Toyota Corolla or a Chevy Impala. Each family gets one or the other and can have only one car. The Corolla, at gov't purchase prices, costs $32,000. The Impala costs $46,000. When you need service, you take it to a gov't run service center. Think Jiffy Lube on a bad day. But hey, we all get the same level of service: crappy. This is done to save costs - by sticking with only two models, only two sets of parts need to be stocked. You will not be allowed to modify the cars in any manner since the gov't owns them. At 100k miles, the cars go to the crusher even if they run perfectly well. Either that or they make us drive them into the ground, giving replacements only after 250k miles. If you want something else, you're going to pay for it yourself, even though you're already paying for the gov't supplied (not really supplied by them, but by our taxes) car. Paying twice, in effect. I keep hearing how healthcare is broken, but I have yet to see specific examples of where the system has broken down in a major way. My personal experience would say otherwise - I'm almost 40 years old and have no complaints about medical care. Anecdotal stories about Aunt Midge or Cousin Bobby do not a crisis make. Even seems to know "someone" who knows "someone" who had a problem. Once. Years ago. There will be periodic one-time problems in any system. But where is the epidemic, as it were, in our current system? Life expectancy keeps going up even though our nation's largest medical problem - obesity - is self-induced. How is socialized medicine going to fix that? Oh yeah - by regulating what, and how much, we eat. I'm not sure what is so wrong about the pharmaceuticals. Those companies, like the oil companies, have created products that we ask for, and when they give us exactly what we ask for we bitch about the cost. Heart medication doesn't just develop itself.
Dan, you say that healthcare is optional? Do you have a health insurance? I hope you do and I am actually pretty sure you do because you have a job. If mccain plan gets passed you might think: I am healthy and don't need to pay for an insurace. And later you find out you have one of these: cancer, diabetes, HIV, or any other illness that will cost you a couple hundred thousand dollars a year to just keep u alive. And with sociolized medicine you would pay maybe 5-10% of your pay check every month, maybe even less than that. And if you feel like you want more protection and no lines to get to a doctor you get a cheap health insurance. Speaking of education. Everyone should go to College and have a right to get education, expensive education keeps poor people poor and rich, rich. You can still have private colleges where you have to pay, but the prices will come down because a lot of people will go to state colleges.
I have to say...im disagree with the statement...... its the people choices not yours...some do carry health insurance some are not....and yes you're right about if someone don't have insurance, they pay high buck...but not all can't effort the pay the coverage...same with the colleges, I met many peeps in college that they are undecided what they want to do for a career. and guess what...they can't effort it and dropped out or even withdrawn....u need money to do those things...right now JOB is perhaps the key here...
I don't understand what? Tell where I am wrong? Show me some fox news article that prove me wrong. She did go to college and she has a masters in economics.
What are the multiple dots at the end of each sentence for? Just wonder. And its a fact that people with college degree are more likely to have a higher paid job.
how can it be a fact when its you are just "more likely" ? i never went to college and i make good money? i have lots of friends that went to college and make more money at a job that has nothing to do with their degree?
and that's not even a faq either.....obviously u haven't got out yet and meet the peoples in america....do you know why there are a lot of asian restaurants? just because they know what they operate...that call entrepreneurs or business acknowledge....and they don't even go to college either....so stop talking about what makes more money and not...u just don't know shizzle.....dis s amerika yO... tbone out.......dotdotdot
Not everyone needs to go to college to make a good living and get a good paying job. I feel You are making statements with out any real life examples to back it up and i for one am getting tired of it. I just feel that you are over generalizing and you should maybe just sit back and chill and think about what you are writing before you attack the average person. I know plenty of guys in my field of work with out college degrees and I would trust their opinion over someone who just got out of college and thought they knew everything there is to know about life. I am not trying to attack you Taras at all but sitting here reading all of this makes you seem judgmental of people different from you. I could be wrong but that’s just my two cents.
Here is an article for you all who think that college degree is beneficial http://www.quintcareers.com/college_education_value.html And speaking of people who went to college and work in an area different from their degree. College degree makes you overall more knowledgeable and competitive in job market.
And i appreciate your input. I am not being judgmental. You want proof of my "blunt" statements? i give it to you. Read the article i posted. i am not saying that you cant make good money if you did not go to college, i am saying you are more likely to have a higher paying job if you did. And thats been proven by a number of studies by very smart people who dedicated there whole lives to research.
Can't help but think of this: Stan: All right. [the two parties meet] 'Scuse me. [holds out a clipboard] Hello, we are selling magazine subscriptions for our community youth program. Would you like to help young people like us by purchasing a subscription of your choice? Driver: Oh wow, you guys shouldn't be doing that. Don't you know what you're doing to the world? Kyle: Wha- whataya mean? Man 1: [wearing a guitar over his back] You're playing into the corporate game! See, the corporations are trying to turn you into little Eichmanns so that they can make money. [the other man is busily eating chips] Stan: Who are the corporations? Woman 2: The corporations run the entire world. And now they fooled you into working for them. Stan: Are you serious?? We never heard that. Driver: We just spent our first semester at college. Our professors opened our eyes. The government is using its corporate ties to make you sell magazines so they can get rich. Kyle: Ugh! Those dirty liars! Kenny: (Sonofabitch!) [throws down his shoulder tote] Man 2: This is a really nice town you have here. That's why the corporations are trying to use you to take it down. Stan: Well... Well what do we do? Driver: Just hang with us for a bit. We'll fill you in on everything you haven't been told.
Sorry, but it does on average. Go and look at a mid to higher end corporate job posting and you'll see that a BS/BA is always going to be a requirement (in addition to a ton of other things).
Both of those statements are true and do not contradict each other. What's your problem with highlighted text?
Go make a non-flawed one, or at least try to dispute them with facts. The latter won't work, because educational wage premium is going up for the past couple years, thanks to more international trade. I'm just gonna stop here. Taras - there's a good saying: Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you to his level and beat you down with experience. Especially true of internet forums.
And have likely spent ~$100,000 (more for private, less for public) in tuition. And 4 years lost income. At that time a modivated person could train in a trade such as auto repair, pumbers (you laugh, those bastards make a good living), electrician, etc. All of these people can make just as much money as your average college grad. Will a college education "enrich your life?" Yes, if you take it seriously (most students don't). Will it increase your potential life time earnings? Yes. Is it required for a successful life? No.
I must be an idiot, I didn't finish college :roll: edit: YET! I get free college in 1 year (my wife works at a college) so in a year I don't have to be an idiot.
