okay, this should be real interesting....if they have a bunch of snow at the site do they plow the course...or do WE plow the course??:biggrin:
Carl goes first? Or maybe I can use my new pull-behind snow plow for my car. pic :biggrin: But yeah, hopefully we don't have too much snow, it'd be nice if we didn't have to plow every time we need to make a course change.
Unless we get past about eight inches of snow on the ground, I think we run it unplowed. We have a Saab and the Carlson ice racer as the only 2WD cars so far and they should both be able to traverse 8 inches of fluffy stuff. If we get some heavy snow, things may change. This is just my opinion, Mark Holden will make the final decision.
Well, I'm frankly getting worried about this. Options if the snow is too deep are: 1. Ask landowner to plow. He has the capacity, but he's not exactly a spring chicken, and I'd hate to ask it of him. Also, the course layout needs to be right, so coordinating that would be tough. 2. Find a volunteer with a plow on their truck to come out early and help set up the course. 3. Drive my truck around enough times to clear out a course. Regardless, I forsee the tow strap in my truck getting a workout on Sunday. I was kinda hoping I could leave the truck home and bring the G20 out for some demo runs, but it isn't going to pull anyone out of a snow drift, so it's looking like the truck it is.
Mark U's opinion counts for a lot, as he's been doing this a lot longer than I. And yes, he's instructing. I'm planning on going to the site on Friday and seeing what we've got to deal with.
I'm game for using my car as a "snow traversability test unit" Any excuse to whip a couple is a good one.
Will instructors be doing ride-alongs or will they be observing from outside the car? Who are all of the instructors? Will Mark give up all of his secrets so I can keep up with him next year
The instructors will be Mark "Mayhem83" Utecht and Brent "Stick" Carlson. I may be trying to rope in a couple more people to assist them. Here's how the process will go. Short (~1hr) classroom session at the start of the day. I'll do most of the yapping, and I'll talk about: - The friction circle - Weight transfer - Left foot braking - Straight line braking - Trail braking - Braking in the turn - Pendulum turns - racing line vs late apex vs traction line Not necessarily in that order, still putting together my outline. I'm going to try to keep this pretty tight and not get too far from the core points I want to hit. Split into two groups. Looks like it'll be around 10 in each group. Run mini courses: - Instructors observe from outside the cars initially. - Each driver runs the course one way, and then waits, while the rest of their ground runs though. - Turn around and run mini course in reverse. - Once everyone is through, we take a short (5 minute) pause and have people talk over what's working for them, and what's not. - As we figure out what works best in terms of timing, I'll let the groups choose how many times they want to run the mini courses between pauses. Fewer pauses mean more seat time, but delayed feedback. I think perhaps 3-4 times through and back would be the most we'd want to do. - As the time progresses, the instructors will be able to, at their discretion, ride along and watch, or drive and show (with the participant's permission, of course). Regarding multiple driver cars. This is going to be inherently unfair to them. I'm sorry, but that's how it is. You'll have to choose how you'll switch off and balance the seat time you each get. I believe that there will be enough seat time during the day that you won't feel too put out. At lunch, we'll all get together inside again and we'll have a freeform classroom session while we eat. This will be pretty much driven by the participants, and I expect to mostly play MC while the instructors field questions and go off on tangents At lunch we'll also decide how we want to approach the afternoon. We can split the time in the afternoon differently, doing more or less mini courses, or doing a full course combing the minis. I think we'll do at least a little on the minis just to let people work on stuff that gets talked about over lunch, but I suspect that most people will want to get onto the full course sooner than later. Sunset is at 4:30pm, and especially if there are clouds (snow is forecast last I looked), it's going to start getting dark earlier than that, so I plan on stopping no later than 4pm. I'm going to expect people to show up prepared for this event. You're probably going to be driving in on your snow tires anyhow, so most people shouldn't need to change wheels or do much other than unload your car and go straight to tech. Collecting all the loose stuff in your car and putting it into (a) bin(s) the night before will greatly help out. Dress for the weather! You're going to be outside for a long time! Bring plenty of fluids too, the cold dehydrates you!
This works for me at least. I can ride shotty for most of the day and still feel like I'm getting my money's worth. A safe, legal, and controlled venue is worth it to me.
Dan, I will never give up all my speed secrets as I never know when I need to dish out a beat down. Seriously, I have already told all of you my secret. Spend all of your free time and money on racing for 20+ years. Seat time is seat time is seat time is seat........
let's talk tires. obviously medium compound gravel's will be teh suck. I don't really have winter tires that perform (hankook w300's - designed more as a tarmac winter tire with a bias towards ice traction over snow). I have access to soft gravels which will be in the proper temp range if it isn't too cold but won't handle deep snow at all.
Honestly, even soft compound gravel tires would be to cold to work even if the snow wasn't there. On snow, they'd be awful. If you hustle, you can get a set of Winterforces from tire rack. If you go for 16's you can find a lot of wheels that would fit, and . . . SCCA rules allow for DOT studded tires at snow/ice events . . . Winterforces are studdable . . . Wouldn't make a huge difference at the RallyCross, but at the Orr ice "race"? Hmmm . . . Anyhow. Of the tires you have, the best bet would really be the w300's I think.
That is pretty much my plan. Find all the seat time I can and enjoy every moment. This is a great question. I can run my winterforces or the KM6's. I'm guessing the Winterforces will be my best choice but then again I've never tried the KM6's in the snow. Any recommendations from those with more knowledge on the subject?
Just so everyone knows Winterforces are on national back order. No one can get 205/55/16's right now.
ANY gravel rally tire SUCKS in the snow. I have experienced this using both med and soft compound in both pirelli and michelin. You would in fact be better off with and all season tire. Dare I say it, RE-92s are better than gravel rally tires in the snow EEEK! If you have a winter tire option, use it. It will be better than the gravels.
I'm in for some learnin. Can't let the ankle biters gain ground on me. As Mark said, "Seat time, is seat time, is seat time." Amy
Mark...talk to brent, I don't know what we are using for tow vehicle, but I would forsee being able to use it for pulling me out of the snow bank...or anyone else for that matter. I think it may be the big diesel, it is 4WD, I think. EDIT: Just talked to Brent, we are going to use Brent's dad's diesel. He says it has 4WD and we can use it for recovering wondering driver (i.e. pulling me out of snow banks)
Like a new dime...have you seen the shedancer? It might shine like a wheat penny, but that is about it. Too many dents, doesn't make it shine to well.
Too bad its not road legal. The cops would never get a good shot of radar off the stealth Shadancer, with all those facets. Amy
Okay, they are dimples...like on a golf ball, they make it fly farther and straight...maybe even go faster. bumper covers and updated registration and presto it is road legal!
So you're saying it's like a diamond in the rough? I think you'd find it would be more like polishing a turd.
