that explains why you no makey it to my shop... damn wish it was another reason like you ran over a cat instead... hope it turns out ok...
It's ok. I'm down for now. I don't know what I'm going to do at this point. I'm looking at possibly buying an STi shortblock and putting some pistons in it. It isn't what I want, but I can't afford to take another shot at it really. For the amount required to rebuild the current block, I'd be better off buying a new shortblock and pistons and know that it'll be fine. I can't verify the integrity of the block right now, I need new rods and pistons, I will likely want to run a new crank. I'll need new bearings. For the money, I'd be better off just going with a 2.5 and dealing with the lack of revs.
Technical Analysis on what happened here. I don't know where to point the finger of blame on this one, there are two places to look though. A little history...the block was machined at D&G. Guy suggested I machine the little end of the rods and the wrist pin holes on the pistons to loosen things up a bit for higher boost. When we finally got into the block, it was apparent that the damage occured in cylinder 2. The wrist pin on the piston in cylinder 2 wobbled until it had ovaled the pin bosses and the little end journal bearing on the rod. After it had wobbled itself a nice hole, it started to move aft and forced the retainer clip out the aft side of the piston. The pin clip removed, the wrist pin then worked its way out of the pin boss enough to begin rubbing the cylinder wall. The gouge it made in the cylinder wall is beyond being able to be bored out. So the block needs to be re-sleeved to be used. We triple checked the piston pin clips to make absolutely sure they were in there and solid before sealing up the access holes on the block. We are positive it isn't any fault of our own that this happened. It all points to either poor machining on the wrist pins, or improper machining on the pin bosses and small end rod bearings. Either of which would cause the wobble that was indicated by the ovaling of both the pin bosses and the rod bearing. The rod and crank bearings were fine, no issues there. And the rattling of the wrist pin in cylinder 2 would likely explain the phantom knocking we were picking up around 3k rpms on decel causing the ECU to pull timing. The damage is catastrophic. To repair the block I have I would need to re-sleeve it, have the new sleeves honed and possibly bored to fit whatever pistons I decide to use. New pistons and rods, bearings and a new crank just for good measure. Obviously new head gaskets and block gasketry, rear main seal etc...the cost of which is way beyond what I can afford at this time. Which is why I'm considering going with an EJ257 with forged pistons. It will be a while before I can afford to buy these things, so that is why I have backed out of the tune. Unless someone has an EJ257 with forged pistons just sitting around :iono:
Damn Jason, sorry to hear that it was the worst case scenario. It's just not fair! Keep us posted. Maybe we could start an "EJ257-mixx needs a new motor!" thread for donations!? I'll donate to the mixx.
I'm speechless. I don't know if I'd even feel right about taking donations though. And yes, it was hard on everyone involved. Especially when you can't look at yourself and say "this was my fault, i did it." When outside forces and inputs cause this magnitude of problem, it is hard to deal with it. It sounds strange but I think this hurt on an emotional level for a few people.
Man, Jas I dunno what to say...I'm speechless as well...*sucks* I was hoping to hear some gears spinn'in and Turbo Spool'in...sad day...honestly my setup was going to be similiar to yours as far as the block goes...I may rethink things through before I go through with it...to ensure I don't get the same results...sorry u had to be the example
My recommendation is to stick to the manufacturer's specs. Don't deviate. I can't warranty this piston or the damage it caused because it will only turn into a finger pointing game between the builder and the piston manufacturer. My suggestion is that if your piston manufacturer gives you wrist pins and pistons, they likely have sized the pins in hte pistons the way they intended them to be and require no modification.
Man, I am speachless as well. Its a tough thing to swallow. Even if they would not do anything about it, I'd take it all to D&G and say "look d-bag, you machined this and look what happened. I'm out $xxxx because of your assumption. Wiseco knew what they were doing and you reccommended f-ing with it." All just for piece of mind of course, and not such harsh of words. Sounds like they need a little reality check on what they think they know. Keep your head up. It will run again.
Agreed. Although not being in the loop on this completely it looks like D&G did some armchair engineering based on other engine builds or a hunch and it cost you big time. Unfortunately you agreed to their never tested rule of thumb and this is a custom engine anyways so legally they probably aren't liable but I still think they are responsible. Definately put them in their place so they don't talk someone else into a mistake. You never know, if they are stand up guys they might share the rebuild costs or something. I feel your pain bro, and good luck on the rebuild.
No chance of assembly error? Its automaticly someone elses fault. First things first pull the motor apart and start inspecting all the parts. Then I would head down to D&G and in calm maner figure out what happened.
In fact, I'm going to pull the other 3 pistons tonight and check for pin wobble wear in all of them. I doubt seriously that all my rods would be bent.
that really really sucks man, i am really really sorry to hear that this all happened. i know the time and dedication you guys dropped into this build, that sucks hard core, i would be talking to D&G for sure and make them deal with the problems they helped caus
This blows! i was so pumped to see jasons awesome 22t build. I am slightly confused here. essenatially, D&G modified the rods to have a looser fit on the wrist pins, which as it sits is the most likely cuase of failure? none the less serious suckage, i will have to pay uber close attention to what i am doing when i start in on the 22t.
Yeah, I have Dream sitting here talking me into further credit card debt. There is apossibility of getting a block and pistons by Wednesday.
Plus the fact that you won't lose out on your deposit and will still need to probably travel later on in the summer to get "tunned."
make sure you think what you are doing through. you were planning that 2.2l for a long time. had every little detail figured out, goals ect... have you thought about this stuff for a EJ257? or are you looking at another EJ22T block?
Yes, saving the monies on your deposit now would be good, still having Clark tune it would be good! And the 'angry-miXx mobile' will be up and running again..w00t!...maybe even the La Crosse cruise, eh!? I just want to see you up and running again and to have that feeling of defeat squashed beneath the tires of the AWD as you piss-pound the concrete in t3h WRmiX! So yes, debt now!! FTW,FTL,FTcreditcardcompanies! oh yeah, FTD&G!<<<Sorry....this ej22t build thread just gets me ALLwound up!:laugh: /rant
With the EJ257 I would need to run a .051" headgasket to get close to the stock STi CR of 8.5:1. Which is still boost friendly and gives me some bump to get moving. I'll see what I can accomplish, but I'm not making any promises. To the extent of saying "I wont know till 3pm on Saturday"
I have read. I have talked to people involved. I have talked to different engine builders. I am willing to bet that one of the wrist pin clips was either damaged or faulty. Machineing the pistons in order to make the wrist pin a little looser is common practice. What type of wrist pin clips were used? I would hate to see a company like D&G get burned down when it could vary well be that its an installation error. I have had engine machined by doug and guy. I know friends who have. Not one problem. For a while they were the only shop sleving honda blocks locally. Not one problem. Sorry not that I dislike Jason or anyone else who was involved in the build but I am going to take the profesionals side.
well you dont know what really went down either, you tend to base your opinions and thoughts on shots in the water. and Jason, isn't an STI 8.2:1?
blablablablablablablabla.... What matters is that there really is no way to find out exactly what caused the failure. There is only going to be speculation; now some can be certainly much more valid than others. But to turn it into a pissing match is pretty stupid and a waste of time.
i agree, lets wait to hear the results from the other pistons and rods and ****. Jason, shed a little light on the builds future, got any plans in the works?
+1...^^^that will really tell more of a story than just the results of the one failing. Hard to say what or who is responsible(manufacturer's of said parts/Installers/or the shop in question, but the fact still remains), the damage has been done!!.... And it sux a**!
Listen. And listen carefully. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. I know that the pins and retainer clips were installed correctly as we checked, double checked and triple checked that they were tight in the spots where they were intended to go. They had no play at the time. I'm not blaming anyone for this as there is no way to determine who is responsible or if it was just a freak problem that happened. I will be pulling the other 3 pistons in a little bit. I was working so there was no way for me to go into the garage and do that until about 30 min ago. My plans for the future are an EJ257 with Mahle std. bore pistons, cometic .040" headgasket. 8.75:1 static CR with my WRX heads. I've got the fueling headroom to boost it with that CR, so I might as well use it. As far as bench building and speculation are concerned, stop now, that isn't what this thread is about. I simply told you what was wrong with the engine and the findings I've found thus far. You guys can go debate what caused it in another thread. Do not get this thread locked. kthx.
I am not trying to start a pissing match and I am not going to say anymore. I was just saying there are other posibilties besides bad mouthing D&G.
