Right Wing Conspiracy Meet

I still won't. They can DIAF.

 

hmmm I guess I shall go die in a fire then.......

 

Off-topic here. Fondune, what is your avatar of? When I joined, I saw your Spagett avatar, got a laugh out of that one!

Back on topic. What did people do before modern times, when it came to un-wanted kinder? Oh wells, the right wingers have pro-life stances, and the radical left have animal rights activists. Which one is more important? Its all relative I suppose... But, which has more value? When that horse (Eight Belles) last week at the Kentucky Derby broke both legs it was euthanized right away, I suppose that is the merciful thing to do in that instance, if the horse cannot be fixed. I suppose that the animal rights people were none too happy about that. But, where is their superhuman empathy when it comes to humans? Hrm, oh well, I guess it comes back to what they believe in. Abortion I suppose would be a short term solution to a longterm problem, when the real solution is just for people to try and control their hormones so there would not be a need for abortion. Again, watch IDIOCRACY now. Unwanted babies would not be so prevalent if people were to be careful and control their hormones, and I suppose people would be able to adopt much more a percentage of the children that are waiting for kind parents, to be adopted. I do not know the statistics, I am guessing here, but unwanted babies that are from irresponsible sex (the raging hormone problem) are probably the majority of abortions, and babies from rape are from the lesser percentage? Take away the raging hormone reason, and you have more parents willing to adopt children from violent reasons. It stems from irresponsible sexual habits, running around and stuff like that.

I have friends who were adopted, I am glad that they were not aborted, and that their original parents were loving enough to spare their lives so that another family could become happy by means of adoption. I am not browbeating the people who have chosen to have abortions, that is their burden to bear and they have their personal reasons to deal with, but that is no free-for-all excuse either.

Just my 2 pesos'.

 

I never thought I'd see you go so quietly!

Seriously though, *most* pro-lifers are hardcore religonutz that think a woman who chooses abortion (or the doctor and staff that perform it) is a murderer destined for hell. If that is that is the case they deserve to die simply for being self-absorbed arseholes caught up in inescapable infantile fantasies about make believe beings.

 

Of course this could go back and forth... I quess I am one of those darn "pro-lifers" but I don't think any woman or doctor choosing to participate is a murderous terrible person... there are always exceptions to the rule! As stated above the few cases of rape and such have to be considered, but to just give up on a potential life because you were irresponsible and didn't think about your pen1s or sexaul inhabitions before making that decision to "do it" seems a bit weak the way I look at it!

There are SOOOO many willing couples/parents willing to take on that life for adoption purposes since they either cannot or decide not to go through the pregnancy process that would be very willing and able parents. One of my best friends is adopted (probably the best all around person I know) and another very close couple has been fighting for years to try and adopt and have children only to see both blow up in their face till finally getting the opportunity to adopt their first child!

I suppose it will always be a tough debate, but the chance for a successful life has to out weigh no chance doesn't it?

-Marc

 

this is the point!!!

 

The whole raging hormones argument is such a red herring because A) condoms and B) the birth control pill.

The entire joke of that argument comes to life when you see the same people who are fighting against the abortion as an option are fighting to keep condoms and the pill out of the hands of people who need it most. Teens.

I actually consider myself to be pro-life because life is pretty sweet. I agree with some of the sentiment here that abortion should be the very VERY last resort. But the very VERY first resort needs to be easily and widely available.

Plus, no one wants to adopt minority babies. They go to russia first, then asian countries, then africa, and then african american once all those other options have dried up.

 

Utterly invalid argument. You're proposing that something that is indeterminable - the relative/subjective definition of prospective "success", or lack thereof, of a fertilized egg - should take priority over a known fact - a woman that believes in her heart she is not prepared to be, or is not capable of being, a good mother at that point in time. The italics are important because many (most???) women who have abortions ultimately go on to have children.

I understand and appreciate the idealism but unless you're a woman facing this decision your opinion has no bearing. Even if you were, no two people are facing the same set of circumstances so it is hard to make any type of parallel argument.

Adoption is just another red herring. Sure, I suppose it would be great if every woman who conceived carried to full term and interested but barren adults had a new pipeline of unwanted but otherwise healthy babies. This argument fails in that all it succeeds in doing is projecting the wants and judgments of desperate people onto women facing very difficult decisions. It's a hyper-demented form of peer pressure...c'mon Becky, can't you just carry it to full term...we know some people that would love to have your baby. It's a merger between the Thought Police and baby trafficking - foul and morally reprehensible.

Of course, the real irony here lies in the aforementioned correlation between the most strident pro-lifers and the same subset that is against sex ed, free birth control, etc. Great idea - tell kids they can't have sex - making the forbidden fruit appear even sweeter - while simultaneously leaving them wholly unprepared for the fallout when they inevitably take a bite or twelve.

For far too many the term "pro-choice" is immediately translated in their brains to "pro-death" due to cultural biases largely imprinted by religion. Pro-choice is not about destroying embryos for callous sport, indifference or convenience. It's about protecting the sovereignty of a woman's body and providing one alternative for ensuring that children are brought into this increasingly f@#ked up world under the best possible circumstances.

An interesting study topic - the correlation between the most fervent anti-gun control folks and the most fervent pro-lifers. I'd gamble my Suby that R-squared is >.8. Oh how special. Let's ensure that every possible fertilized egg results in a child who some day may enjoy the chance to get accidentally killed by the needless guns we so covet. Taken a step further, I wonder what this set would choose if they could only have but one - their guns or making abortions illegal? Again, my Suby says they'd pick the former. The hypocrisy would be epic as at the end of the day these people would choose to retain the ability to kill over the ability to "save" lives...

The truth remains - if men could get pregnant Jiffy Lube would provide abortions with their horrible, free coffee.

/rant. I win. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

 

:laugh:

Sad, because it's true.



I just have to interject here for a moment and say sorry nate, you asked for it

 

I should point out that Jiffy Lube stands for any convenient retail setting men frequent - bars, gas stations, KOD, etc. - and was not an (in)direct shot at Nate.

For that matter if men could get pregnant there'd also be a wealth of DIY forums on the topic. Hell, there'd be DIY meets and abortion parties. If you don't agree, check yo' self befo' you wreck yo' self (credit: Ice Cube).

 

i can haz conspiracies?

 

oh, I was just making fun of how this thread was a total joke and now we're having a whole back and forth on the topic of abortion and having an internets...serious business moment.

 

my girlfriend doesn't let me

 

you're dating your child?

 

the day isnt over....

 

I will take the adoption issue more seriously when all of the children who are currently in foster care, etc... have loving and permanent homes. As of now there are already way to many children and not enough families who want them.

Also, a good family friend's son just got married a while back. He's 19 and she is 20. They're hardcore devout Mormons. Well, they ended up with an unexpected pregnancy. For religious reasons the decision to have the baby was obvious and never even up for discussion.

Talking to my mother, about two weeks ago they had a sonogram and it turns out that the baby has serious deformations. Serious like organs growing outside it's body. The child has 0% chance of surviving more than an hour after birth, if it even makes it that far.
In their case they've chosen to terminate the pregnancy after lengthy discussions with the church, family, and friends. But mainly the church. And in these circumstances the church was willing to support whatever choice they made, even abortion. I can't even imagine how hard it must be for them. Just when they come to terms with, and begin getting excited about having a child they get hit with this news.

This is just 1 of many many examples of the "gray area." As I said before, so many people want this and other very serious issues to be black and white. Well, what if the child can't survive birth because of deformations? Is it right to force the mother to go through the remainder of the pregnancy just to have the child die during birth? Especially when everyone knows that's what is going to happen? Some might classify that near or in the category of torture.

And another +1 for the pro-choicers getting named as pro-death. It's a poor correlation. I have strong feelings that the issue is the parents issue. BOTH the father and the mother. More so the mother, but the father, if he's man enough to stick around, ought to have a say in it as well. I would much prefer to see women bring a new life into the world. But we don't live in a utopia. Very often that is not the right decision for whatever reason, and I completely support the mothers right to end the pregnancy. Abortion is a very hard decision to make. (unless you're one of those freaks who use it as their normal birth control. **** them). And until you've actually been there, you don't really know what you'd do. I find it hard to believe that at least some people won't change their minds.

 

I have a crush on you too

 

thats more than understandable.


as far as the children are concerned, i agree 110% Josh, discipline is on a sick decline and they use drugs and complete BS excuses to deal with children these days.

I was still part of the generation of general ass beating, spankings, soap in teh mouth, ect... and i can see where it basically ended in my brothers era and even those kids are way more out of line and out of control.

no spanking is a joke, physical discipline is not a bad thing by any means, you should show control over the child in order to maintain power and keep them in line and on track IMO

 

exactly, i know right from wrong and clearly can decipher the two without much hesitation. but it seems like the newer and newer generations can nearly justify in their damn heads doing anything because of the complete lack of repercussion.

 

oh god, dont even get me started on that ****