Sad pic - "Last Touch". Borderline Gorey

yeah, Stalin's lust for conquering the world was pretty cool.

 

Thats a great point. A little known fact is that many of the troops in Iraq right now requested to return after their first deployment.

I can name 6 Sgts, 4 Ssgts, and a couple of gunny's I've been working with who have put in their packages and returned to Iraq for 3 tours total. two of them have purple hearts from their first deployments and requested to return for their second two more stints.

Our troops do believe we are fighting for our nations freedom. Has their been a terrorist attack on the united states since we entered Iraq and Afghanistan? Have you sat down and spoken with a veteran of the Iraq war? Its NOTHING like the vietnam war, these men see progress EVERY day. You cant imagine the blood sweat and tears put into their work, and when they see a buddy take a hit, the push back harder. Thats fortitude. Again Taras, maybe you want to go back a few pages and click on the picture of what saddam did to the kurds. 400,000 KILLED. How many do you think survived, looking like the above? That numberis of CONFIRMED deaths, they cant even guess non-fatal casualties. AIDS in africa is a huge epidemic, and I do believe there is a lot we can do to help them in educating, etc. What we are doing in Iraq as a military power, and what needs to be done in africa by civilian teachers, doctors, etc. are completely different things.

To the war is worthless comment: War hasnt been useless as a means for revolutionizing countries for all time. Again, how many died in our independence and in our civil war, fighting for others rights? Its the darkest side of humanity, its disgusting and its horrible, but in some cases men arent willing to listen until they get punched in the face and told they arent invincible. I'm standing by to see what happens with this fart in Iran.

 

Ok, this is completely incorrect. There has never been any connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. Even Bush has been forced to admit this. In addition, it is now obvious that all of our covert intelligence on Iraq pointed to them not having any type of WMD. This includes the "Niger purchase," a piece of intelligence that was strongly used by both Cheney and George Bush as a jumping board into war.

 

this thread is teh reason why we have the "no politics" rule.

Its coming on election season and this is going to happen more and more.

I am not picking a side here or expressing my views, suffice it to say that one or two people on here made me laugh out loud.

anyways sorry to do it but the thread has to be closed.


EDIT:
I unlocked it. Play nice.

 

Ok, I'll open it back up. No personal attacks/flaming, no typing around the swear filter.

edit: gyah, I ended up locking it because zak unlocked while I was typing that. so, ok, I locked and then unlocked the thread.

 

one word: "Curveball" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant))

 

bushes fault

 

OK first of all, Taras- you can't type let me correct it or you. spell check FTW.

secondly BRIAN SHORTEN - plus 520761290627^4 for your long (very informatve) speech:+1:

 

haha...I'm just trying to be informative. I'm not placing blame. The world is a complex place, with complex ideas, and complex resolutions. You can't just blame Bush for everything. I don't agree with the President on a lot of things. But I'm not gonna' blame him for being misinformed and semi-retarded

 

I stand corrected on that point and thanks for the link.

 

I've heard we are fighting for oil, then we are fight for Iraq's freedom, weapons of mass destruction, Osama Bin Laddin, what's next?

 

Thanks, I don't believe I resorted to name calling or personal attacks. I stated my views just like everyone else on the thread. None of us will ever agree completely on political issues We obviously don't, but you are more than welcome to your views. I also don't think one paragraph about my views really gives you the full scope of who I am and all my views on life.

 

I think he was trying to say that you shouldn't trust the media. Just, in a very colorful way.

 

That's cool, then we agree on that one for sure. No hard feelings on this end. I think I will steer clear of this thread. It's just far to difficult to have these discussions in person let alone online when you can't "read" a persons intentions with a post.

 

has anyone watched Bill Maher? that makes me sick to the stomach..

 

Thanks

 

Pretty much.

Think for yourself and question everything.

 

As always, capitalism saves the day! :biggrin:

 

Yes, hip hip hooray for Adam Smith!

 

first off dont put words into my posts please. michael moore is an ass hat and i never said or mentioned any of his "findings"....

if you say that americans are way mis informed than it gives me reasons to say that exact same theory on your statements as well... dont sit there and say that we are talking about is illegitement and make your own statements. what are you basing them from? exactly. this war is no longer protecting our way of life and we are in contrast....imposing on another peoples way of life. im not saying that we arent trying to acomplish somthing good. i just think we are putting way too much into this "protection of everything we hold sweet".... where is the biggest threat to our lives right now? i would say the country that launched actual missiles at us....OH YEAH anyone remember that? cuz it wasnt on the news very much...because yes. we are misinformed but we did get attacked and there isnt another war started because north korea doesnt have anything we can TAKE from them. but in contrast i totally understand the troops wanting to fight for us. i would never turn my back on the troops. infact i have endless support for them. but thats why i believe that this war is not legit enough to risk their lives. dont use the notion that we would lose our standard of living if we backed out..... there is no proof of that. sadam is taken out. what els do we need? and if we are supposed to be the worlds police maybe we should start doing something more worldly productive rather than continuing this fight....

but dont put words in my mouth

when you look at it. we are spending WAY too much money funding this attempt to better some other country's citezen. im more focused on providing for the united states people.

its called socialized medicine to scare people into thinking that its competely socializm. dont say its not working in the rest of the world because you can look it up. please do. our standard of living health wise is way below the rest of the worlds more develpoed countries and they ALL provide their people with health care... thinkabout it

 

there is more information out there to support your first idea...this is all about oil. almost ever war we have been in for a long time has had a link to forign oil companies....

WMD's....none...
osama....wtf...where is he?
iraq's freedom.....didnt we kill sadam?...andwhy do the people want us out?

 

"Operation Iraqi freedom accomplished".:hsugh:

 

Because oil companies are making money.

 

Don't believe the haters of Socialized Health Care. People in other countries don't lose their homes or livelihood because of medical bills. It just doesn't happen. Why should it? The government should work for us, as we are working for the government.

Has America become such an individualistic country, that we won't help out our neighbors and fellow man? I don't mind if some of my hard earned tax money goes to someone in need of medical assistance. I hope that in case I need it, that it's there for me as well.

The French are the healthiest country on the planet...Socialized Medicine.

...And statistics do show that our healthcare system is like 37th...just above Slovenia. SLOVENIA?!?

I support the efforts and sacrifices of our troops. If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be able to argue these issues on these forums.

But, I mind when my tax money is being mis-spent abroad on unfounded wars, instead of stuff like infrastructure and education. It's time that we start investing our money here. Where we live. Instead of all over the map. The more that you spread out, the harder it is to maintain. You become over extended. In a way, doesn't the US seem a little....Roman-esque?

Oil prices are greatly effected by supply and demand, and fluctuations in the market. But if you think that America doesn't have a large interest in foreign oil, than you are sorely mistaken. Oil runs America. Literally and metaphorically.

 

i think it would be highly suspect if immediately following the US's involvement oil prices in the US dropped significantly. if anything the objective is long term - to ensure that we are only paying $3/gallon 10 years from now. I'm not saying this thing is 100% about oil but oil is certainly a factor

 

Isn't the open and free exchange of goods and services so much better than people poking a gun in your back while you make Trabants? :biggrin:

 

Australia has government health care, and dental... yep.. great work gets done too on the government money... (sarcasm) and they also pay people to sit around and smoke weed and surf... oh yeah and people still lose their houses... so whatever...

 

Socialized medicine is not a panacea but it is much better than what US have to offer right now. Medical system here is worthless and bureaucratic. When you go to a doctor you dont even know how much you will have to pay for a visit. My GF has a genetic illness that is pretty serious. I told her that she needs to go to a doctor and tell him that she needs a gastroendoscopia(sp) (when they stick a camera in your stomach). She was able to get an appointment with a doctor 4 weeks after she called and when she went to see the doctor she did not do ****. No tests nothing gave her pills and told her to go home. The pills are 400dollars a box btw. After 3 weeks she started to feel even worse. She is still feeling like **** and no help form ****ing doctors. We might have to go to Russia where you can pay a doctor or a clinic a reasonable amount of money and get whatever you want done. Here you cant even pay anyone to have what you want done. Here doctors look at you like you are their client and sicker you are better it is for their business.

 

just make sure no-one is also paying them a lot of $$$$ for soem kidneys or something... ha ha ha take inventory of body parts before going to doctor..

 

I wish this thread could 3rd trimester abort the majority of the inane posts.

 

^^^ kinda like this one

 

"due to medical bills."

My brother is a resident of north coburg, and I was just there. I asked him about health care. He has two kids, is able to choose his provider, and has no worries about medical bills. Both of his children were in and out of the hospital when they were born. If that was in America, he would have nothing due to the cost of health care for his children. My point is that if you have socialized medicine, your medical bills aren't a worry. Especially for someone like Taras' GF, who unfortunately have a genetic disease.

http://www.ambafrance-us.org/atoz/health.asp

 

Didn't say it was teh worse, but seeing as I was born there, lived there 26 yrs.... I have soem insight into what the government is about over there...

and having some kids... we have had 3 of them... we were in and out 6 days total for all 3... cost us a fair bit (I havent bitched about it.. someones got to pay for the work they did, the cost of being able to do what they did), but hey with the sue happy environment over here why else do you think premiums and insurance is ridiculous??

 

re read your argument and then re think it.....no sense was made. conservatives make this argument over and over about how our media is so horrible but then they use information that is given to them by the media.....thats so retarded it makes me laugh

 

and as far as destabalizing the country? hahahahaha! when was the last time it was stable?

if we are so upset about halping countries why cant we go behind the UN's back again and go help the people of darfur in africa? they too are being invaded and killed by their own government. its a perfect example of genocide! over 2 million people have been driven from their homes because the sudanese dont like them.

and the only reason it hasnt been declared as genocide by the UN is because they need every member country in the UN needs to agree that it is. China happens to get most of its oil from supporters of the governement that is attacking darfurs people.

so.......if its so important for the united states to look after the well being of everone around the world why havent we put a huge emplyment on this big issue? you dont even hear about it in the news....and its bad news too so youd think we'd love to hear about it! (as you say)

 

I still can't understand why we went into Iraq in the first place, if we had this government in 1941, we would of had a war with China

 

duhh they had to find those weapons of mass distruction!!! :roll:

 

So I haven't read this whole thread, but on the topic of health care here...

I have had five shoulder reconstructions. The last three were because the first two actually caused more problems than they fixed in the long term. There was another option, but between recovery times, and the fact that insurance would only pay the cost of the newer "cheaper" surgery, and we would have to make up the difference for the tried and true one, I had the new one done.

I will continue to need more operations as the ligaments deteriorate, have been receiving cortisone injections a couple times a year for the past 5 years, and have been in and out of physical therapy.

This all is fine. I can/have lived with it just fine. But maybe it would have been avoided if our hands weren't very heavily persuaded by the insurance company to have the new, better, cheaper operation (or so their opinion was. $75,000 in operations and another $20,000 in related costs later I beg to differ).

That's half my point. The other half is that because of this, I CAN'T make the slightest mistake with my insurance now. They've tried to cancel me for technicalities twice in the past 6 years. Since I left my job, because of a shoulder related injury (workers comp just completed their "obligation") I have to be paying over $400 a month for COBRA just to keep my insurance. If I don't, it becomes near impossible (or financially impossible) to get insurance again outside of a policy through an employer. And even with that, I will have a year long pre-existing clause that basically makes it worthless. Because the original problem is a genetic one, and I have the same ligament issue all over my body, that clause would get them out of paying for most anything joint/bone related.

So my only option... get raped up the ass in premiums for a crappy policy. I can't get my own policy since I have to be going "group to group" to not get a pre-existing. Also, even with that policy, I went to have some tests done due to a bit of a scare (all came back perfect btw *does dance*). My "primary care clinic" was so booked out that I couldn't get in for almost two weeks. So I went to another "in network" family doc. Since it wasn't my primary care doc, Insurance is refusing to pay for any part of it. Now I owe them over $1000 because I went to another doctor who WAS IN NETWORK without a referral. (that office is now my primary care clinic. The first was just assigned to me by the company).

I'm also paying over $300 a month in prescription costs at the moment. The problem is that I'm only taking four things. Just a few years ago that would have cost me $60 a month.

I'm not looking for sympathy here. Just to point out how people get ****ed in the ass by our current system. Is socialized health care the perfect solution... hell no. It's got plenty of problems. If it were to happen in this country I'd almost certainly carry a private policy on top. BUT it's a hell of a lot better than what we have got now. At least people wouldn't have to be paying obscene amounts of money just so they can stay covered for the next year and three months after they get a new job.

With insurance costs going up by 8-30% a year, most employers can't even afford to cover their employees. The employees have to pay in to that coverage. In a few years at this rate the cost of care will exceed the income of most people. Like I said before, is socialized health care a wonderful solution...no. But it's one heck of a start to fixing a system that is so broken it's about to implode on itself.

 

/\ /\ /\ i was refering to you telling me that i should watch the news more, but then you said the media is putting their own spin on everything....get it? thats whats making your argument so invalid my friend.

its like me saying that we all need to eat more bannanas! but hey.....you know banannas will kill you someday. its supporting one thing and then not supporting it in the next sentence.

 

yeah i agree.... the best media views though are those from outside our country because they are usually less bias than ours is.

 

except bias against the US...