t3hw00t Project Impreza MR RWD thread...

^w00t!!!!

i get really sick when people say, why not just buy a different car or do something easier. you can never own a unique car by doing either one of these!!! just like the MR h22 integra, yea its not even amazing at much of anything, but its still completely bad ass, and a really good all around performer, and it damn near looks like it coulda came from the factory like that.

 

I see what Matt is saying. You are pretty much going to have to fab up your own rear cross member utilizing pieces of the factory unit for mounting and suspension pickup points. You will probably want to integrate that into the rollcage since the rear of the car isn't designed for the different types of loading that you will be giving the structure with the motor and trans back there.

 

Yea, the rear cage, engine mounts, tranny mounts, and rear suspension mounts will all have to be sorta part of the same package. Is there going to be some sort of firewall in this thing? Perhaps you should just build a firewall right behind the front seats so you have to open the rear doors to get to the engine. LOL. This is going to be fun.

 

i think we should just get a front subframe/w crossmember and all susp bits and bolt/weld it in the rear, and use some kind of mounts to keep the steering from going anywhere, (which will also be able to give toe in and toe out.

 

That would give us good engine mounts and line up the tranny with the hubs correctly. Would that provide the right geometry for the butt end of a car? I don't know enough about suspension to know what the differences between the front and rear are.

This would give us the ability to secretly put a remote-controlled steering rack into the back end of the car. This would provide endless amusement at autocrosses.

 

Yeah, I think at this point you're going to be building less of a roll cage and more of an entire tube framed chassis. I'd seriously start there first before worrying too much (and spending too much) on engine related stuff. Figure out your engine mounting points and suspension mounting points and start jigging up from there to develop the rear of the car.

I think this is where your going to find the most challenges to this build (ie ground up suspension design and chassis dynamics) so if you can tackle that, you're pretty much good to go on building the motor and everything else.

 

or . . .

Mount the passenger's seat backwards and put another steering wheel in front of it. This would also provide endless amusement although the tech inspectors at autocrosses might not like it much.

 

Also, if you don't have a pipe bender and TIG welder...

go shopping now.

 

****e, where'd you get that. I wants one.

 

I'm guessing Mr Wray has that covered.

 

wow cant wait to see this thing in action good luck with the project!

 

It's mine. i got it from WagonL on here (I think)

 

YEAH, YOU SUCK

 

4 wheel steering

 

yeah and they dont start cheap... press benders for a decent one like mine start at around $7G... I have been researching and enquiring on pull/draw benders, and also into a Mandrel bender... not gonna happen

draw benders start at around $11G not including the die sets
Mandrel benders start at $21G not including die sets.. each die set starts at around $3G, so that killed my plans right there... I would have had to invest almsot $50G to get into more exhaust stuff like I wanted and that isnt gonna happen...

although I want to know what machines they use on the Extreme 4x4 show etc..they look smaller and easy to use....

 

just not true. There's a shop here in Duluth that's doing numerous VW-Subaru conversions (I just did the harness for a 22e-powered vanagon). the modification isn't too bad. just need the adapter plate and flywheel to attach to the VW trans, and a new engine crossmember (which is pretty simple.....could fabricate one pretty easily). only fabrication required is for the radiator (for the beetles and older vanagons that had air cooled motors), and some clearancing for the turbo if using one. a tiny little fraction of the fabrication that you're looking at.

BUT, a beetle isn't mid-engined. so, yawn.


a 914 would be ideal. but that's been done too. so, yawn.



definitely stick with the wagon!!

it's been a while since I've really had a chance to look under the back of an EJ car. is there enough space between the inner lateral link mounts to fit a tranny?! That will dictate how much fabrication you'll be looking at. if there is enough room. you can cut the center section of the crosmember in half, and remake it to go under the trans.

the thing you want to keep in mind, is you want the diff stubs in the same place. that's the #1 priority.

I do think that a stock engine xmember will be a great donor. but I think replacing the rear xmember with a front one is not really a good idea. as that will require using front control arms....which means fabricating mounts for the rear of them. also, you'll have to do some pretty precise measuring to compare the track width to the distance between strut tops so you don't wind up with crazy camber.



just as an idea. check out this picture of an EG33 setup for a vanagon. you can see the crossmember in the foreground. you'll want to fabricate something like this for yours:

 

Yes, I already have most the equipment to complete the job, from a Mandrel bender, plasma cutter, welders, and enough fab. tools to complete the job.

This is a job that I have been thinking about every angle for the last 6 months. Everything from the subframe, suspension geometry, to motor placement. So we are not just hopping into a build that was just some drunken thoughts. There will still be a few things that will be difficult and frustrating, but what project car isn't.

Then as for making a rear motor, rear drive Subaru.. Why not! How many of those do you see out there. I am looking forward to putting this car under the knife and getting it completed.

 

Yes Jason and Mike have completely lost it on this one, but finish or fail they are doing something completely different than any other Subaru project car I have seen. I think I might have to stop by the Wray shop or t3h garage to lend a hand and drink some b33rs this summer.

 

you have mandrel bender??? what brand and model.. pm me some details please.. may I come check it out sometime... does it do 3in tubing?? yada yada

 

bender is a mittler brothers we just have the 1 1/4, 1 1/2, and 1 3/4 dies, we have no intention to get a 3" die. It is mainly used for cages and other small items. I will most likely be renting it from my boss, to get this job done.

 

Chux, I am thinking about making a custom rear subframe and it wouldn't be that difficult for me. Just need to make some precise measurements and some close tolerances, but can still be done.

We will most likely weld the subframe to the car since we will have the rear hatch to remove the motor and gearbox. Plus that way we would be able to build the roll cage to the rear subframe to really stiffen up the shell.

 

Do you guys know if you need custom axles yet, or is there enough slack in them to fit between the tranny

 

thanks.. checked their site... not really what I am looking for (didnt see a true mandrel bender, just their pull/roll benders)... well not 100% what I am after but got my attention for some other project ideas...

 

That we will still have to see, we should be able to use a standard drive shaft, but I have already be talking to the guys at the driveshaft shop about getting a custom one made up. Since we might be using a r180 rear hubs, just so we can have a 5x114 hub to give us a larger variety with the wheel selection.

 

that's the point I was trying to make. the offroad guys put a rear diff in the front, and the stock axles work fine. the width stub-to-stub of a rear diff is only about 1/2" narrower than the trans. the DOJ cups can easily take up the slack.


I don't know if that holds true for the R180. but there's a pretty slim chance that you'll find factory axle cups for rear r180 axles that will cooperate with the RS trans.

 

I've been wanting to do this for a while, but haven't had an STi axle laying around to figure it out (ahem, fobia). The R180 bolts into the 1G Legacy rear subframe, and if a hybrid axle would be possible, I'll be looking for a R180 in short order.

 

.....who?

 

how is that any different than any other project


Dan. I think the biggest problem with using an r180 with r160 hubs is axle length. AFAIK, the r180 is physically larger. so the axles are shorter. and since the outer joint isn't really serviceable, it'd be pretty hard to use r160 outer spindles with the shorter r180 shafts.

but I'm sure there's a way to put r180 DOJ cups on 160 shafts (might require a custom race, as I think the shaft diameter is different....but that's not a big deal).

 

sounds sweet. I'll have to come down to check it out sometime for sure.

I heard you mentioning this before and again am instantly reminded of VW's insane Golf they made Rear engine and RWD:




http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/17/worthersee-2007-vw-shows-off-monster-golf-gti-w12-650-concept/


BTW, I still have your torque wrench from my tranny swap, you may need that for this project haha.

 

Sounds like a rotary draw bender that is usually used for cages and tube frame cars. Unless you are using alot of exotic materials then you are going to get more work done with a good mig welder.

Good luck with your crazy project.

 

yes, tig welding the whole thing would look cool but would take years.

 

The bender looks like this, gets the job done:
http://oksubaru.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7770

 

Yes, Sweet build. This is going to be sweet.

 

I would be so scared of rearending someone if I owned the car, im sure it will be in there good, but you know it will be floating around in the back of your mind when you get it going lol.

good luck and I hope to lend a hand if needed.

 

Have you done any weight distribution calculations? Could you move the motor forward and use a shorty driveshaft and rear diff if it made sense for balancing the car? You'd have to weigh each end of the car shell once the old motor is out to figure it out I suppose.

 

1st Gen Neons had a great cable shift system. Doubt it would be long enough, but might give you some ideas.

 

I bring it up because that VW monster Golf thing that someone talked about earlier spun out in every turn when Jeremy Clarkson drove it. Your wagon has a longer wheelbase. You should be able to estimate weight distribution if you know the weight of the car now, the weight of the current engine, the weight of the new engine, and where the lifting ring on the tranny is relative to the front wheels. That should be the CG of the motor/tranny assembly.

 

I say mount everything as close to the center as possible. The lower your moment of inertia the better. Thats the idea with open wheel cars, to an extent. This thing will have ridiculous turn-in and rotational dynamics for a Subaru.