Good stuff! I wonder if a beaded lip would be less leak-prone than the current weld? I've seen instructions online for making a DIY tubing beader, like this one: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/homemade-intercooler-pipe-bead-tool.324132/
That should still be good fun but smart move keeping the ability to switch turbos easily! The 6466 seems to put out awesome numbers. I am planning on using that one eventually. I didn't know they had a gen 2 72mm turbo. I have only seen the 68 and then I thought the next biggest gen 2 was the 86.
The bead itself shouldn't be sealing anything. It's just there so the coupler cannot slip off as easily. It gives the clamp something to hold against. The advantage of a welded bead is that you can put it right at the edge of the pipe. A typical bead will be a little ways in. Normally not an issue, but in a setup like this it's very important. I just looked through the press releases on the site and noted they had the 72mm. http://www.precisionturbo.net/news/...T7285-CEA®-Turbocharger-for-SFWD-Released/295 All of the Gen 2 CEA's look great. Very good top end power when pushed hard. Downside for me is that they will only sell them with ball bearing centers so the cost is nearly double. Also, from what I can tell the Gen 1 will perform the same (or possibly even better) at lesser boost. If you're not going to run high boost (probably close to 40psi on our motors) then there isn't a big advantage to the Gen 2 (although no real downside except cost). Basically my thought is that if I don't max out the Gen 1 6266, then there's no reason to go to anything bigger (Gen 2 6266, 6466, 6766, etc). With this motor I don't think I'll max out the Gen 1 6266.
Good to know, I haven't really looked too hard but is there better transient response and less lag with the ball bearing center? The journal bearing versions are so much more affordable. I think I'm going with sleeves so the gen 2 might be worth it.
There should be better response with the ball bearing. Most of the direct testing on Gen 1 and Gen 2 CEA's are on Supra's and EVO's that are being run with the wastegate closed. Maxing out the turbo. On a motor like ours that would likely be 40+ psi. These tests really show where the Gen 2 can shine. At lower boost the Gen 1 and Gen 2 end up producing similar results in most cases. It's just that the Gen 1 hits a ceiling and then the Gen 2 has 50 to 100 WHP more.
Thanks! That could be useful. I actually have a much longer one that came with the Treadstone kit. The only downside is that the radius is much larger. It seems like the really short ones are the only ones that have the super tight bend. I'll keep looking around. There are plenty of cheap ones on eBay but it's hard to know what you're really getting with those. It's kind of a gamble due to their use of stock photos. I originally thought I would need a 90° bend that was 2.5" -> 3" and I ended up with 3 of them before finding one I liked via eBay. They often show up looking different than the picture.
Any oiling solution for the turbo yet? I feel like that could be the only weakness of this fog light mount. Also, when you drive on the street are you going to put an air filter on there or a screen or something? BMS sells these super short silicone filters for BMWs that I think fit PTE turbos: http://www.burgertuning.com/single_turbo_filter_by_BMS.html
I guess there are some photos I forgot to post. I do have some of the stuff, but not all of it. I agree that oiling is a pain. That's the last major thing I need to sort out. This the stuff I bought: Mocal pump, various fittings and lines, TurboSmart BOV, and K&N stubby filter. The filter is very short. I believe around 2". I think that's about all I could fit behind the fog light cover, and I'm not even sure if it will fit or not. I'm still toying with the idea of a mesh, a velocity stack, or just larger cone filter. Depends how this one performs and fits. I'd like to run it open at the track. EDIT: I forgot to add that I returned all the fittings and lines. I bought all straight fittings, but that will just take up way too much room. I need to get things mounted and figure out what I really need and then I'll re-buy.
Nice stuff! I was actually going to ask if you had thought about a velocity stack because it should improve flow into the compressor even over just running the turbo inlet open.
Ben, be aware that your Mocal oil pump is a diaphragm type, so you have to make sure that it never sees any contamination. The Viton diaphragm is a plus, but the valving is still susceptible to fouling. Initial start up will be the biggest time you need to monitor and clean it out. You'll also want to have it hard wired to turn on with ignition on instead of a stand-alone switch. All lessons hard-learned by a friend who bought my MR2 and slapped a turbo onto it, all of which I had to fix.
Thanks for the input! I do plan on running a relay off the ignition so it will run once the key is turned. Is there anything special that should be done to keep it in good shape? I hadn't planned any filtering or special maintenace.
Great plan for the pump control, it's what I would have suggested. The main thing you can do for the pump is flush the turbo and feed lines before hooking the system up completely. First, run the engine without the pump in place for about 2 minutes, collecting the oil in a pan under the turbo and putting it back in the engine as you go. That'll take care of the feed side of the system and the turbo from anything that got in during assembly. Be aware of your oil level during this, it'll drop quicker than you think! Then, run the pump in some clean oil to make sure any manufacturing debris gets out. (have it pull and drop to the same pool of oil so you can see anything that comes out) After that I'd flush out the turbo drain->pump line as best you can before hooking it all up and testing. Mostly it's about that initial startup of everything together. Making sure nothing gets in the way of your pump doing its job. You'll know if the pump stops working by seeing the clouds of smoke that pour out of your exhaust. Filter media, bits of carbon, rubber hose bits, just about anything can prevent that pump from working.
Spent a couple hours last night cutting up the bumper to fit the bigger core and the new piping. It is pretty close now but it will need a little more trimming. I also mounted the rest of the intercooler piping.
I think he maybe overcompensating.... For a small top mount intercooler. Alright I admit I am just jealous. I've got gas money for a ride?
I bought the STI fitment FMIC kit so I threw that on. I may end up flipping it. We'll see. The benefit doesn't seem huge for the effort but I might still do it.
Looks awesome regardless without the fmic piping and turbo in the usual spot, it may help to make your case for it being a 2.5rs
Fuel lines and fittings arrived yesterday. I am getting some rails soon. I already have the TurboSmart FPR. Priced out the oil return lines/fittings. I'll pick them up soon. I believe this is where I'll be mounting the oil pump. Just need to drill a few more holes.
Nice! Any idea what fuel rails you are going with? Also, did you run aftermarket rails in you 11 wrx when you ran the 20g xtr? You can obviously guess why I'm asking
I am getting IAG rails. I didn't have rails on my 20G XTR setup on the 2011, or the 6266 setup for that matter. I didn't have rails on the 60-1 setup on this car either. If you're having the stumble issue I would pick up a set. Otherwise it's debatable whether or not it would help much with that size turbo.
I see, thanks for the info. I'm mainly looking to get rid of the stumble, but I was also just curios if any of your past setups required aftermarket rails. I guess you're going a bit bigger this time around!
I wonder if it's possible to relocate the power steering fluid reservoir to where you have the scavenge pump mocked up and put the scavenge where the reservoir currently is, or inside the frame rail in that area to drop it as low as you can. A lower lift height will help prevent more oil from flowing back into the turbo and smoking. You still might need to create a small reservoir under the turbo for the oil to flow back into so you don't smoke up a storm on startup.
Do you think it will really make that much difference if I move it down a few inches? I probably could put it in a lower spot, but it would be more exposed to the elements. This is what I thought would be best because it had minimal exposure to sand/salt/water/etc if I street drive it. And it would require minimal bracket fabrication to mount. Just drill some holes. Fobia suggested I could put a check valve (with a low opening pressure) to prevent the oil from flowing back into the turbo, but I wasn't sure how big of an issue this would really be. The documentation with the pump does say that an inline filter (before the pump) is suggested, so the filter and check valve are under consideration, but I'm not really sure what's out there or if it will really be needed. Here's a shot of the oil collector. I'll use a -10AN female to female adapter to mount it directly below the turbo.
It's all about limiting pickup line volume. If the line holds too much oil and the pump shuts down (key off), that oil has to go somewhere, which could flow back into the turbo, which could get high enough to leak past the shaft seals. Figure it like this: if the collector has enough volume to hold all the oil stored in a completely full turbo drain->pump line, then you don't need to do anything special, as it will never be able to flow back into the turbo. If it's too small for that, a check valve may be a good option, but venting the chamber will become important, as you'll want to maintain flow at all times so the collector stays as empty as possible. As for road debris, the pump is better suited to deal with that than your turbo is. The dump side of the pump can go crazy directions, and actually move a good distance, it's the pickup side that needs to be short and direct.
So, you're saying I should use -2AN lines so they barely hold any oil? Haha. Jk. I'll have to do some measurements and estimate the hose volume vs. the collector volume. It seems like it can hold quite a bit. I definitely plan on venting it (to atmosphere). Reading the documentation that came with the pump it says that it can be mounted up to 8ft above the source and in the same line it says to mount it in a dry location. I could certainly fit it in the fender, but I feel like the road debris off the tire would absolutely coat it with crap. I'm still not decided on anything, but I still like the spot on the strut tower because there is plenty of room and it isn't exposed to the elements. I haven't decided on if I need an inline filter or check valve yet. I'd rather skip them if I don't need them. I bought some lines and fittings today. With the -10 AN side facing upwards it looks like it's VERY close on hood clearance. I may swap it around and see how well it fits.
I was saying mount it inside the frame rail, right in front of the PS timing cover. No tire grime should get there, especially if you have a splash guard under the engine to protect the belts and such (maybe not with the exhaust piping, but still). I'd also vent the collector high on the valve cover so you don't pull any contamination from the vent into the pump (maybe the PCV breather hose would suffice?) . Not sure, but it might also help to keep crankcase pressures down as well.
I checked in that area and there just doesn't seem like there would be enough room. Unless I went with a 1/2 radiator, then there's plenty of room. LOL. I do not use a splash guard. I don't have much for mounting points left. It will be vented along with the crankcase vent (PCV is deleted). I have all of that plumbed with 1/2" lines and then T'd off to a dump under the car. I would just T this vent in up by the back of the block. I did swap the top of the pump around so the -8 AN input is on top and that fitting ends up saving around 5/8" of height vs. the -10 AN on top. I think it should be enough to clear the hood. I also crunched some numbers on the hose volume vs. the collector volume. Even with 3ft of hose it is still less than the collector. I'm hoping it will be closer to 2ft of hose, so that's around 50% of the collector volume. I'm hoping this means I can skip the check valve, but I'll have to wait and see. Oil Collector: 3" D x 1.5" L = 10.60 in^3 Oil Line (-8AN): 0.5" D x 36" L = 7.07 in^3 0.5" D x 24" L = 4.71 in^3
Legit science is legit. That's awesome if you can get the hose length that low, would make for a stellar setup that should withstand good g-loads as well, having that extra volume on tap. Nicely thought-out system! Only concern for the vent would be if the pump draws air in through the dump pipe out back when there isn't much crankcase flow. Full boost you should be making enough blow-by to overcome whatever the pump draws in, but idle might be tricky. You'll only be able to tell that once you get it all hooked up (would only mean you need a filter at the end of the dump as extra precaution)
I can definitely keep it under 3ft. Getting it down to 2ft will be tough. Should be somewhere inbetween those two though. I don't have any type of filter on the dump. It's just a hose pointed at the ground. Would it be better to just do the vent separately and put a little filter on it?
Nah, I like the idea of tying it into the old pvc oil separator section, but you will have to check to see if the pump can pull air into that hose when the engine it idling. You just don't want random road debris working its way into the engine oil. My hope is that it's a non-issue and the pump doesn't draw anything in at idle and the world is happy and awesome.
So, just stick my thumb over the end of the hose while it's idling and see if it's pulling any vacuum?
Yup, once everything is all hooked up and running, so it'll be a down the road kinda thing. Thankfully, the slight modification you'd have to do if it was able to pull vacuum is minor and easily done.
Yup, we had to learn them the hard way with the MR2, so I try to help others out whenever I can! I wish you the best of luck, and eventually we'll have a go when I get my car back together.
Well, I've only gotten input from a couple other Subaru guys doing this. A good point that was brought up is that the turbo oil feed volume also should be considered. That would put the total volume over the volume of my collector. I'm looking at shortening the feed line. I have a 4ft line now, but I can probably get it down to 2ft or maybe less if I pull from the front of the head. The only other real input was from someone using the exact same header and oil collector (Fobia setup). Everything is basically identical to what I'd be doing (PTE turbo, same location, same collector, etc). He has his pump mounted to the wheel well (engine bay side, similar to my proposal) and he doesn't have any check valves or filters in place and he doesn't have any issues with smoking or contamination. As you said, I will really know for sure once it's up and running. If I have an issue it shouldn't be too hard to make a change then.
I got the rails to go along with the lines and fittings today. They are made by IAG. Very simple and sleek design, but well made. Now I have to pull the intake manifold back off and get them installed and lines routed.
Last night I did a little more work in the garage. Spent a couple hours cleaning up the mess I had made. All the boxes of parts were just piled up on my bench and tool chest. I bought 4 more Home Depot totes and packed things away and then cut up all the cardboard boxes for recycling. While I was doing that I also installed a new bench vice that my brother got me for my upcoming birthday. My old one was from Harbor Freight and the threads completely stripped out. This one is from Amazon. I hope it holds up a little better than the Harbor Freight one. After that I did a few small things on the car. First I installed and tightened the header bolts. I used the Snap On swivel sockets that my other brother got me for Christmas. The inner two bolts used to be near impossible to tighten properly. A shallow socket wasn't deep enough due to the stud and a deep socket with swivel was too long and hit the header. I usually ended up trying to snug it down with a stubby open ended wrench. The swivel sockets made it super easy. They're shallow sockets, but they have an indent in the middle that the stud sits into and allows the socket to engage the nut. Totally worth it to have this tool for special instances like this (tranny bolts should also be similar). While I was under there I also installed the O2 sensor and the EWG. The EWG points straight down and the dump is just a short 90° bend the shoots the vented exhaust straight backwards. This position makes it much easier to access than the normal EWG position on stock location setups. Then I drilled the strut tower for the oil scavenge pump mounting holes. I used a stepped drill bit and it went through easily. Then I just put in a bolt from the back and used a nut on the engine bay side. The pump includes rubber grommets to dampen vibration. The last thing I did was to pull the banjo bolt from the OEM turbo oil feed on the back of the head and then cut down a random bolt I had and plugged that hole. I need to buy some more hardware so I can pull oil for the turbo from the front of the head (AVCS) to reduce the length of the oil feed line.
Velocity stack arrived: Also picked up my (hopefully) last two fittings (-10 to -10 adapter and a 120° -8 AN fitting):
That is awesome!! You planning on testing with and without the velocity stack? Thru are supposed to have a significant benefit
